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Can you point me toward a good Steam/Hydronic Boiler Troubleshooting Flow Chart?

JohnNY
JohnNY Member Posts: 3,287
I'm updating some service personnel binders and would love to include a flowchart for the newer techs to follow. Do you know of anything worth copying and including?

Many thanks in advance,
John
Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
Consulting & Troubleshooting
Heating in NYC or NJ.
Classes

Comments

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,380
    I've never seen one, John, and I wonder if one would even be possible, with all the possible variations out there...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
    We could probably create a pretty good one here on the forum. I'm sure everyone would have some input ;)
    Paul S_3
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,287

    I've never seen one, John, and I wonder if one would even be possible, with all the possible variations out there...

    I've started making one and run into exactly that problem. It would probably have to be product specific.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
    Classes
  • Bob Harper
    Bob Harper Member Posts: 1,081
    You would need a zillion iterations. I'd keep it simple and break it down into the systems: fuel delivery, power, controls, t'stat, sensors, heat exchange/ TD, circulation of heat transfer media (water, steam, glycol), exhaust venting,, safeties and limits, combustion analysis, etc.
    That way regardless of each installation, you can use a process of elimination if you understand the sequence of operation and what each system is doing.
    For instance, heat transfer includes sufficient media (water, steam, glycol), GPM, delta T, how clean the HX is, supply and return temps, etc. You can have great pipe sizing, flow, radiation, etc. but if the boiler is all clogged up with soot and scale it isn't going to transfer heat from the flames as efficiently as a clean boiler. If the chimney is partially blocked, undersized, weak draft, restrictive, etc. then it may not transfer heat properly or too much and it vents out the base.
    I doubt you could write an efficient, effective flow chart that would take into consideration a vent damper's wiring and sequence on the same page as the role of a CAD cell or stack limit on an oil primary. Now, add to that aftermarket components such as power venters, air kits, etc. then add in CAZ depressurization, chimney inspection, improper piping, improper radiation, improper flow in piping, etc. and where does it end? Just so much to consider.
  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,352
    edited November 2016
    John, I agree that there may be too many variables for a flow chart.

    If you're updating service personnel binders, I recommend checking out Al Levi's book, The 7-Power Contractor. He gives fantastic advice on how to streamline your processes and set your team up for success. He's got some great info on his website too.

    And there's always A Pocketful of Steam Problems (with Solutions!) for troubleshooting steam-heating problems.

    President
    HeatingHelp.com

    JUGHNE
  • kevinj_4
    kevinj_4 Member Posts: 91
    Hey Erin,

    Do you still have the golden rules book???

    We use that along with the pocket full and it helps our guys.

    Of course for steam just give them a copy of the lost art.
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,637
    Not sure if I have a flow chart but I am sure I have step by step procedures for both steam and forced hot water systems. I will check my instruction manuals at the training center to see what I have.
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,633
    John Here is one I included in my book on boiler service. Hope this helps.
    Ray
    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
    Erin Holohan Haskell
  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,352
    @kevinj - Yes, the Golden Rules book can be found here: http://astore.amazon.com/heatinghelp-20/detail/0996477225

    Happy to hear it!

    President
    HeatingHelp.com

  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,261
    7 Steps;
    1. Verify the complaint.
    2. Gather information.
    3. Perform a visual inspection.
    4. Isolate the problem.
    5. Correct the problem.
    6. Test the system operation.
    7. Complete the service call.

    Sounds simple but those 7 steps will make even the best tech better.
    Erin Holohan HaskellSWEIIronman
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,287
    Wow. Great help here. Thanks, @RayWohlfarth @Tim McElwain and @Erin Holohan Haskell
    I'm determined to make this chart and help streamline the process. Ray, what you sent here is exactly what I've had in mind.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
    Classes
    Erin Holohan Haskell
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,633
    John Glad it could work.
    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,807
    edited November 2016
    I think what would be great is to write an app that was editable on the fly with questions and possible solutions available in a descending likelihood format. In other words a searchable data base for the steam/hydronic industry. If we started with a template that could be added as we go would be of incredible use. Amazing what a motivated group could build. 1000s of years of experience in one place. Heatapedia
    SWEIJohnNY
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,287
    Here's what I've got so far. It isn't much. I'm going to incorporate @RayWohlfarth's chart in here somehow now:
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
    Classes