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Neighbours balanced flue leaking water from exhaust and air intake.

Yashimaki
Yashimaki Member Posts: 7
Hi, I am new here and will try to be precise and brief.
I am a council tenant. My neighbour installed a gas boiler in rear extension with flue that is in my garden approximately 1 metre from my bedroom window. The plume is a nuisance as now I cannot open my window. I have had to put in ventilator fan in the window (see pic) . Also the flue drips from the exhaust onto the party wall causing damage to the wall and also drips from the air intake onto my patio. Both leaks only happen when the flue is operating. I have been told this is potentially dangerous as this indicates a leak between the exhaust and the air intake. The neighbours have refused to remove the flue and the Council have permitted it to stay. They have no right of entry so cannot legally service the flue as I am the secure tenant with sole rights to permit trespass. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Comments

  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,554
    It does not appear to be a concentric vent, meaning it's only an exhaust, not an intake. Why doesn't someone turn the Ell at the top to blow the exhaust toward the back yard away from the structure?

    I really don't understand your reasoning: you're complaining about it, but won't let anyone in to fix it?
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,967
    I'm with @Ironman

    Also, I'm a bit surprised that exhaust is allowed to be in that area near all of those windows.

    Where are you located?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Yashimaki
    Yashimaki Member Posts: 7
    Hi Ironman, thanks for your comment. This is a balanced flue (sorry the pic's not that clear) and condensate is dripping from the air intake (outer ring). Would you know if that is an ID or AR fault? The GIUSP tech bulletin 001 suggests it is but I am no expert.
    The exhaust has been pointed in various directions and makes no difference because it is in free air and the plume travels along the path of least resistance. When the window is open it acts like water down a plughole.
    Regarding letting them fix it. Would you let someone put their car on your driveway with the engine running at random times and come and do repair work while it's on your property? This flue amounts to the same thing as they have stuck their "exhaust pipe" outside my bedroom window and the fumes blow in and make me ill.
    I would appreciate any advice you can offer.
    Charlie from wmass
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,967
    Yashimaki said:

    Hi, I am new here and will try to be precise and brief.
    I am a council tenant. My neighbour installed a gas boiler in rear extension with flue that is in my garden approximately 1 metre from my bedroom window. The plume is a nuisance as now I cannot open my window. I have had to put in ventilator fan in the window (see pic) . Also the flue drips from the exhaust onto the party wall causing damage to the wall and also drips from the air intake onto my patio. Both leaks only happen when the flue is operating. I have been told this is potentially dangerous as this indicates a leak between the exhaust and the air intake. The neighbours have refused to remove the flue and the Council have permitted it to stay. They have no right of entry so cannot legally service the flue as I am the secure tenant with sole rights to permit trespass. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


    Being as they refuse to remove it and the Council have permitted it to stay I don't see as how you have any option but to allow them to repair it.

    I suppose you can just cut your nose off to spite your face and let it continue to leak all over.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Yashimaki
  • Brewbeer
    Brewbeer Member Posts: 616
    edited January 2016
    Where are you located? Sometimes local codes dictate how close you can vent near a window.

    Maybe the vent can be modified to discharge higher on the building above the window.
    Hydronics inspired homeowner with self-designed high efficiency low temperature baseboard system and professionally installed mod-con boiler with indirect DHW. My system design thread: http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/154385
    System Photo: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/FileUpload/79/451e1f19a1e5b345e0951fbe1ff6ca.jpg
  • Yashimaki
    Yashimaki Member Posts: 7
    Hi Chrisj. Thanks for your comments.
    Firstly the Council have no authority to permit it to stay any more than they can rent out any part of my toilet, garden or bedroom. That is the law.
    Secondly, fixing the condensate leaks does nothing about the plume which stops me from opening the bedroom window or using my patio/garden.
    The point is if I can show the Flue is an ID or AR making it illegal to use and as it cannot be serviced due to trespass laws it will have to be moved to a safe position on their own property or they will have no heating or hot water.
    Since when is fighting for my rights equating to cutting off my nose to spite my face?
    Cheers
    Peter
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,967
    edited January 2016
    Yashimaki said:

    Hi Chrisj. Thanks for your comments.
    Firstly the Council have no authority to permit it to stay any more than they can rent out any part of my toilet, garden or bedroom. That is the law.
    Secondly, fixing the condensate leaks does nothing about the plume which stops me from opening the bedroom window or using my patio/garden.
    The point is if I can show the Flue is an ID or AR making it illegal to use and as it cannot be serviced due to trespass laws it will have to be moved to a safe position on their own property or they will have no heating or hot water.
    Since when is fighting for my rights equating to cutting off my nose to spite my face?
    Cheers
    Peter

    Hi Peter,

    For anyone to help you regarding code, we need to know where you're located. We've asked a few times as we're trying to help.

    In spite of completely ignoring my first post, you were kind enough to read my second one and give it a nice disagree. Thank you.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Yashimaki
    Yashimaki Member Posts: 7
    Hi Brewbeer. I am in London. The flue vent already breaks doc J as it penetrates the area permitted wrt the roof openings on their extension. The only to get distance from my bedroom windows would be to put a management kit which would either be 16 metres high or something resembling the innards of a submarine.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 6,967
    It sounds like you are in the UK. From the legal side of things, I don't think anyone here will be of much help.
    I don't think that is a concentric vent, it looks like an exhaust only .
    In the US, the manufacture dictates the clearances for the exhaust vent. The local authorities and the building codes will enforce those clearances and generally have some additional requirements.
    If you can find out the make and model of the appliances then talk with the local inspector you may be able to force change.
    You are right to be concerned. The way that is installed will damage the building and presents a health hazard.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • Robert O'Connor_12
    Robert O'Connor_12 Member Posts: 728
    edited January 2016
    Although tenant associations act like tiny governments and many decisions they make are binding. The installation still must meet code in your state. In the Great State of New Jersey, your contractor must be licensed, bonded and insured, as well as having secured a permit and have final inspection on this installation. The tenant association cannot supersede state law.
    Is there anything else you can tell us about the appliance (make & model)? Any info on the contractor?

    Robert O'Connor/NJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,967

    Although tenant associations act like tiny governments and many decisions they make are binding. The installation still must meet code in your state. In the Great State of New Jersey, your contractor must be licensed, bonded and insured, as well as having secured a permit and have final inspection on this installation. The tenant association cannot supersede state law.
    As others have been asking, what state is this in? Is there anything else you can tell us about the appliance (make & model)? Any info on the contractor?

    Robert O'Connor/NJ

    London.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,554
    I don't know what you mean by an "ID or "AR".

    If you allowed them to install the vent on your side of the wall, then it would stand to reason that you would have to give them access to maintain or repair it. To complain about an issue with it, but not allow it to be corrected by them, makes no sense. If they are refusing to do that, then that's another issue.

    To me, it appears that the simplest solution would be to turn the Ell toward the back yard and add enough extension to the pipe as necessary to alleviate your concerns.

    Unless your neighbors are unreasonable and not willing to work it out, why don't you try kindly asking them to do this?

    Going to court should only be your last resort and lawyers aren't cheap. And, they will still be your neighbors that you have to live beside.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    Hatterasguy
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 17,032
    You have a legal problem, not a heating problem -- and I doubt that any of us are sufficiently crazy to get into that!
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Yashimaki
    Yashimaki Member Posts: 7
    Hi ChrisJ
    I am sorry I did not reply to the first comment. I am located in London.

    Regarding my disagreeing with your 2nd comment. This flue adversely affects my use & enjoyment of my home and letting someone walk over my rights or suffer the consequenses is not part of my universe. Suggesting I should do this was why I disagreed with you.

    Firstly I have not said I would not permit access I have said they have no right of access. I was being brief by inferring knowledge of rule 28. (1) "No person shall install a gas appliance except in such a manner that it is readily accessible for operation, inspection and maintenance". If the leak requires access to repair because it is an ID or AR the problem is solved as they can't fix it so would have to stop using it. If they don't have to fix it because no regs require them to do so I would need to take different actions. This is the area I would appreciate advice on.
    Regards
    Peter


  • Yashimaki
    Yashimaki Member Posts: 7
    I did not realise this was a US site. I am in the UK so it's wasted your time for which I sincerely apologise.
  • Brewbeer
    Brewbeer Member Posts: 616
    No you haven't wasted anyone's time. Every installation is different and we all learn from the different issues that people have no matter where they are.
    Hydronics inspired homeowner with self-designed high efficiency low temperature baseboard system and professionally installed mod-con boiler with indirect DHW. My system design thread: http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/154385
    System Photo: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/FileUpload/79/451e1f19a1e5b345e0951fbe1ff6ca.jpg
  • Yashimaki
    Yashimaki Member Posts: 7
    Hi Brewbeer, thanks for your comment. I am a Londoner. In order to divert the flue to a better location they would either have to elevate it by about 16 metres (how would they do that?)or install a management kit which would probaly resemble the innards of a ww2 submarine. This is to accomodate roof openings in their extension. It already is in breach of Doc J and roof openings and that's not stopped them. The problem is when you have friends on the Council they will let you doi anything irrespective
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    I'm not intimate with UK laws, but I assure you there are national standards that will trump local council decisions when it comes to areas of health, safety, and emissions. You need to get the lay of the land there, and a bit of research on your part will greatly minimize (or perhaps eliminate the need for ) the solicitor's bill.

    Dan does have a few UK readers here -- hopefully one of them will weigh in at some point.
  • unclejohn
    unclejohn Member Posts: 1,749
    If it was on my patio it would have disappeared the next day.
  • Croppie
    Croppie Member Posts: 1
    Chaps. Not sure if my last post went through.

    We're dealing with Yashimaki on the UKPlumbersForums (dot co dot uk)

    Take a wander across the pond if you feel like it.
    ChrisJKC_Jones
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,967
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,832
    Interesting. Sort of makes you appreciate chimneys, eh?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,967
    Steamhead said:

    Interesting. Sort of makes you appreciate chimneys, eh?

    Not really.

    But it does make me appreciate living in a detached house with a good fence.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Croppie
    Croppie Member Posts: 1
    Hello chaps.

    I'm one of the moderators on the UK's largest plumbing forum. Our friend has come to us and asked this of us too.

    If you'd like a wee perusal, please feel free to follow this link.

    http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/central-heating-forum/87039-flue-dripping-exhaust-air-intake.html

    Croppie.
  • Croppie
    Croppie Member Posts: 1
    Hello chaps.

    I'm one of the moderators on the UK's largest plumbing forum. Our friend has come to us and asked this of us too.

    If you'd like a wee perusal, please feel free to follow this link.

    http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/central-heating-forum/87039-flue-dripping-exhaust-air-intake.html

    Croppie.