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Leaking gorton vent

Hey guys, I recently installed a Gorton C vent on an upstairs radiator. The radiator is getting nice and warm, but the past few days the vent has been leaking. If the boiler is cycling just to maintain temperature, everything's fine. However, if I demand a temp change, like first thing in the morning, That vent will leak steam the whole time. I've removed the vent, shaken it around, blown through it, turned it upside down and blown through it to make sure the valve is seating. Everything seems fine. Don't really want to use a vinegar bath on a brand new vent. Does it have something to do with operating pressure? I have my pressuretrol low, .5 - 1.5, though I don't have a low pressure gauge to confirm that. Or should I just try to return that one for a new one?
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Comments

  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,491
    Your pressure range is fine, has the pigtail been cleaned recently? They do sometimes get plugged and that can lead to the boiler running at higher pressure than normal.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    daveamir
  • sobriquet
    sobriquet Member Posts: 46
    No I haven't ever cleaned it, never thought of that. I'll check it out when I'm home and see if I can do that. Is higher pressure a cause of vents leaking?
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,491
    If the pressure gets to high it can blow by the vent, also your pressure gauge may not be working very well at the low end of it's range.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,177
    Lately I've been encountering this same issue with Gorton vents a lot.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
  • RomanGK_26986764589
    RomanGK_26986764589 Member Posts: 229
    My gortons do the same thing. I can hear them slightly hissing when coming back from a setback in the morning.
  • jbmoff
    jbmoff Member Posts: 76
    Mine, too. Particularly in the colder weather we are having in NJ. IRONICALLY, they have been making a lot more noise than my other three Hoffmans I have installed. The"hissing" from the Gortons could almost wake the dead. My pressures are fine and no hammer or cycling. Just seems odd they're doing this seeing they are all brand new vents this season. Beginning to wonder about the quality control at Gorton.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    With all the comments on the Gortons here lately, I'm wondering if they have changed some of the bi-metals they were using (to reduce costs) or if they have shipped manufacturing off shore? Something has definitely changed. May be time for someone to have a candid talk with them?
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,578
    The hissing could only come from a misfit of the plunger at the top of the bimetallic spring, and the orifice. Sometimes bits of grit from the returns can get blown up through the vent, and lodge on the plunger, causing an imperfect seal, most likely if the venting capacity is too small, and the air velocity too high as a result. High pressure above 2 psi probably does a number on them as well.--NBC
  • jbmoff
    jbmoff Member Posts: 76
    edited January 2016
    Well, my pressure never gets above .5, so it isn't from high pressure. The couple troublemakers I have seem to not close when steam reaches them. They spit a drop of water or so and get SUPER hot.
    Can someone suggest another GOOD vent....other than Hoffman....?
  • RomanGK_26986764589
    RomanGK_26986764589 Member Posts: 229
    Maid O Mist seems to be ok. I have a few of them and they seem to behave better and they're quitter too.
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,578
    Have you tried the upside down blow through test?
    If the bimetallic spring in the Gorton vents would twist as it unfurled with heat, then the stopper might be off center in the port.--NBC
  • jbmoff
    jbmoff Member Posts: 76
    edited January 2016
    Seems to me that once it is installed, it shouldn't need be an " every time the steam comes up, I have to check the vents" thing. I have used Maid O Mist from Home Depot, etc. when I needed one quickly, and they do seem to work differently despite many people liking Gorton better.
    RomanGK_26986764589
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    @jbmoff , if you are looking for a good vent alternative to Gorton, why would you take Hoffman off the table? I use them exclusively and have had really good luck with them.
  • sobriquet
    sobriquet Member Posts: 46
    I like the Hoffman 1a and have 7 or 8 of them in use, but when sizing vents using a vent capacity chart, I found that the 1a at it's largest setting is still too small for some of my upstairs radiators
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,221
    I don't think Gorton has moved their manufacturing out of New Jersey. Call them and tell them what's going on- they'll make it right. We use a LOT of Gortons- once in a while a bad one gets through, but we just send them back and they replace them.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • sobriquet
    sobriquet Member Posts: 46
    Steamhead, do you buy your Gorton vents from Gorton or a supply store? I think I probably got mine at supplyhouse.com
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    sobriquet said:

    I like the Hoffman 1a and have 7 or 8 of them in use, but when sizing vents using a vent capacity chart, I found that the 1a at it's largest setting is still too small for some of my upstairs radiators

    It may be that you are trying to ventthose radiators too fast. I don't much care what the venting charts say, they are not designed to tell you what your specific balancing needs are, under your specific circumstances. If you have your mains vented to expel the air in them as quickly as possible, the radiators should be vented relatively slowly. I live in a 5000 sq. ft. house (three floors), with some fairly long run-outs and risers and I don't have a single Hoffman 1A fully open.
  • sobriquet
    sobriquet Member Posts: 46
    I've read that venting too fast can cause issues with steam velocity and such. The room had a 1a but I replaced it with the gorton C, which made a world of difference, the room stays very warm, I'd hate to have to remove it. Tomorrow I'm going to check that pigtail
  • sobriquet
    sobriquet Member Posts: 46
    Also, can venting too quickly cause water build up in a vent? Or condensate not to drain? I recently installed a maid o mist 6 which heats the room nicely but makes a bubbling gurgling type of noise and has water in it when I remove it.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    Typically venting a radiator too fast will cause the radiator to heat unevenly. It may even cause the steam to race across the top or bottom of the radiator and not heat the rest of the radiator. gurgling and water are more indicative of a radiator that may not be pitched the right direction or the steam pressure being too high, not allowing the condensate to drain out of the radiator.
    You really can't put a vent on a radiator to get a single room the way you want it without determining how that affects the rest of the system/radiators throughout the house. All radiators need to be balanced so that every room heats properly and at about the same time.
  • sobriquet
    sobriquet Member Posts: 46
    Thanks, I'm on my way to a balanced system...hopefully. Note a few of my radiators (including the ones in the bedrooms I'm having some issues with) are of the "fin tube" baseboard style. There are all pitched correctly, probably more than they need to be.
  • Mark N
    Mark N Member Posts: 1,115
    I've used Gorton vents for over 6 years now and have never had one leak or hiss or malfunction in any way. I don't hear them vent air or suck in air after the boiler turns off, they are dead silent. According the the Gorton web site they test all vents with live steam. So one would think that duds don't get out the door.
    EzzyT
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,221
    sobriquet said:

    Steamhead, do you buy your Gorton vents from Gorton or a supply store? I think I probably got mine at supplyhouse.com

    We get ours direct from Gorton. Where did you all get yours?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • jbmoff
    jbmoff Member Posts: 76
    edited January 2016
    I prefer Hoffman over maid o mist. The MoM's are in my cellar now just in case...!As for Gorton: Mine came from supplyhouse.com
  • RomanGK_26986764589
    RomanGK_26986764589 Member Posts: 229
    My gortons leaking are only noticeable if I hold a mirror close to it. Maybe it's water that got to it evaporating?
  • jbmoff
    jbmoff Member Posts: 76
    @RomanGK_26986764589 : mine as well BUT you can also HEAR them like the sound of air rushing out of a balloon. After a few cycles this way, boiler waterline starts to show a noticeable drop as 3 of mine out of 5 are acting this way.
  • sobriquet
    sobriquet Member Posts: 46
    So they're leaking so much that your waterline is decreasing? That sounds like an awful lot. Although since I put this gorton in, I did have to top my boiler off the other day. It's probably been a month since I did that last so I'm sure it's just coincidence.
  • jbmoff
    jbmoff Member Posts: 76
    After a two or three cold nights/day (10 degrees), yes as the system runs longer to maintain temp and the rads heat further/more, the vents leak causing a noticeable difference in the sight glass after 48-72 hours. When the system runs on a typical day/week/temps, and boiler does not run as long, then the water line is stable and perfect. Sitting next to one of the vents on those long runs, once could clearly hear and know it is not closing as the steam hits it. (Meanwhile, it was just bought 4 weeks ago!)
  • RomanGK_26986764589
    RomanGK_26986764589 Member Posts: 229
    jbmoff, yep I can also hear them slightly hissing when the rad is hot all the way across.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    It almost sounds like Gorton may have had a bad run on machining the seat or stopper on some of their Gorton #1's??
    egansen
  • jbmoff
    jbmoff Member Posts: 76
    So the $64,000 question is...and I already think I know the answer....are mine defective? I believe they should be dead quiet, right?
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    edited January 2016
    If your pressure is low, your radiators tilted properly (for radiator vents) and you are not just hearing the system sucking a little air, at the end of a cycle, yes, they should be quiet.
  • Mark N
    Mark N Member Posts: 1,115
    Jbmoff, have you tried taking the off and running some water through them to rinse them out? There just might be some crud thats in the valve seat and they're unable to close.
    Dave in QCAjbmoff
  • jbmoff
    jbmoff Member Posts: 76
    @Mark N One of mine is leaking steam pretty bad. I did the mirror test tonight while boiler was running and VIOLA! Totally wet.
    I have not tried running water through them to clear out any debris. That should have crossed my mind to see if it rectified them not closing.
    @Fred. The working ones only hiss a bit with vacuum at the end of the cycle. Pretty discreet. The others (bad ones) are FAR from discreet as that steam is escaping
  • Dave in QCA
    Dave in QCA Member Posts: 1,787
    Nothing worse than an indiscrete steam vent! :)
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
  • jbmoff
    jbmoff Member Posts: 76
    Haha! How true. Tried cleaning them out last night - still same result. Going to call Gorton today to inquire....
  • BrianT1077
    BrianT1077 Member Posts: 108
    @jbmoff, I have been having the same issue with my Gorton # 1 main vents, I contacted Gorton the other day and this was there response to my questions.

    Brian: They have a warranty up to 2 years. On the back of the current production is an arrow pointing upwards ^. Main vents tend to fail more often than others. Either dirt gets on the seat and they stop closing or they sometimes are not placed high enough from the combustion that takes place on the mains and fail. I just e-mailed Wallington Plbg. the same information. Thanks Ken
    Crown Boiler Bermuda Series model: BSI103, BTU output: 85,000, single pipe steam system
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,491
    That explanation sounds like they are either trying to put the best face on a bad situation or they really do have their head in the sand.

    It's best to own up to this problem and then do everything to fix it. People are willing to forgive a mistake, they are not likely to take being lied to with the same equanimity.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • jbmoff
    jbmoff Member Posts: 76
    @BrianT1077 Interesting. I am so disappointed lately in their operating. Worst is - now I have to see if they will replace mine and in the interim, I have to put on some other vents I have in my basement someplace as back up as I don't want that much steam escaping causing me to add that much water to the boiler weekly (or daily if need be).
    Are you in Jersey? I'm in Bergen County (WAY UP) and not many plumbing supplies here except Ferguson who does not carry Gorton (I know... the nerve) and Blackman in Mahwah who may not carry them as well. I do believe they have Hoffman's though.
  • Dave in QCA
    Dave in QCA Member Posts: 1,787

    @jbmoff, I have been having the same issue with my Gorton # 1 main vents, I contacted Gorton the other day and this was there response to my questions.

    Brian: They have a warranty up to 2 years. On the back of the current production is an arrow pointing upwards ^. Main vents tend to fail more often than others. Either dirt gets on the seat and they stop closing or they sometimes are not placed high enough from the combustion that takes place on the mains and fail. I just e-mailed Wallington Plbg. the same information. Thanks Ken

    It sounds like they're doing their best to give good customer service and "make it right". But... when I read the reply, specifically the phrase, "they sometimes are not placed high enough from the combustion that takes place on the mains and fail."
    I am really curious as to what type of system has combustion on the mains. WOW.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
    jbmoff