Leaking gorton vent

jbmoff

My question is how could they fail in just a few weeks time...?
I have other vents that I have had forever without any issues like this.
Just weird....and the response from Gorton weirder.

KC_Jones

When I fired my system up for the first time last year (new boiler and vents) I had a Gorton #1 just sitting there wide open spewing steam. I tapped on it and it closed immediately, it has been perfectly fine ever since. I had a couple rad vents the other day acting up with full rads (bitter cold outside). I repitched the rads in question and so far everything seems fine, but I am starting to feel like these Gorton's can be a bit touchy. I have a slightly unusual situation in my house in that I am NOT over radiated by much if any so I fill my rads more often than most. I would have to guess this will shorten the life of the vent maybe? If they act up again this year that will be annoying as they are all brand new as of last year. I am not passing judgement as overall I am very pleased with Gorton vents. I will wait and see how it goes though.

jbmoff

I am also pleased at the level in which they operate UNTIL the rad is completely filled and that little bugger should CLOSE but doesn't and allows that much steam to escape. I have tried tapping, removing, seeing if there was a build up of water, and even rinsing/cleaning them to no avail.
My Hoffman 1A's and 40's I also use do not present the same situation. My rads are pitched properly, so I know that is not part of my problem. I picked up a new maid o mist today to see if the same thing occurs with a different brand similar to Gorton.

BobC

i have been the manufacturer who has to deal with a problem like this. I am talking dozens or hundreds of complex systems that cost $500 to sometimes $10k EACH.

When problems arise and something is clearly going on the first thing you do is to dissect the failed item and find out whats going on. You then inform the customer of the problem and do whatever you have to do to make it right.

Your better off making the customer a partner than trying to bluff your way through. I would advise Gorton to get in front of this problem.

Bob

Fred

jbmoff said:

I am also pleased at the level in which they operate UNTIL the rad is completely filled and that little bugger should CLOSE but doesn't and allows that much steam to escape. I have tried tapping, removing, seeing if there was a build up of water, and even rinsing/cleaning them to no avail.
My Hoffman 1A's and 40's I also use do not present the same situation. My rads are pitched properly, so I know that is not part of my problem. I picked up a new maid o mist today to see if the same thing occurs with a different brand similar to Gorton.

You have to remember that until the steam gets to the vent, it simply is not doing anything so it is easy for you to be happy with them when they aren't doing anything (as long as they opened the last time the radiator was full). If they don't close when the radiator is full, they probably don't work at all. It's just that they aren't required to work when the radiator is just partially full.

RomanGK_26986764589

I have one Hoffman #40 that I bought from a local Home Despot and it works much better than Gorton. First I thought Gortons don't fully close because of my poor near boiler piping but apparently it's not just me...

Fred

Hoffman 40's are a very good radiator vent. They are the "go to" vent for a lot of the Pro's. Gortons typically are very good too. I have to believe they had a bad production run or something. I use all Hoffmans both on my radiators and on my mains. I use the Hoffman 1A's on my radiators just because they have 6 settings and that makes it nice for balancing a system. You can adjust them for each radiator. Sometimes the 40's might be a little too slow on large radiators or where the run-outs are long (furthest from the boiler). The adjustable ones also makes it easy to keep just a couple spares around instead a spare of several different sizes.

jbmoff

I'm off to the plumbing supply for a few Hoffman 1As tomorrow. Bought a cheap maid o mist from Home Depot today and it was machined so poorly I couldn't even screw it into the 1/8" tapping. Holy Smokes.
I currently have two Hoffman 40s in use with no issues and one 1a with no issues. Fingers crossed for the few I need to purchase tomorrow.
Any thoughts on Dole adjustables?

Fred

I've never used Dole adjustables. My philosophy has always been: When you find something that works, you stick with it unless someone has a really compelling story AND proof to cause me to change up. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. you can "tinker" but when you're done, put it back the way it worked!

jbmoff

I am also using one adjustable Dole and I like it the best ironically...yet they get I publicity here!!!!

Fred

I just looked at the venting rates for the Dole Adjustable. It looks like they vent about 2 or 3 times faster at setting 1 and 2 than the Hoffman 1A and they get closer to a match at settings 3 through 6. I just have no experience with them. I also noticed the modern version of the Doles have a plastic tongue where the Hoffman is metal. Not sure if that has any real impact on longevity.

Abracadabra

jbmoff said:

Any thoughts on Dole adjustables?

Does Dole even exist anymore? I haven't seen anything new from Dole in forever... thought the company got bought out..

jbmoff

Seems like you can only find them on websites like EBay. One of my Doles from my 1903 Victorian I owned still has its metal siphon tube!!

Mark N

Jbmoff and Roman are your vents only misbehaving when you're recovering from a set back? Normally when just maintaining temp the rad vents never see any steam. If this is how you're operating maybe it is best to use vents with thermostatic elements and not bimetal elements. The system pressure quickly rises as rad vents close. This can cause rad vents to hiss and spit water. Be aware though it is recommended to "Install the same make of radiator vent valve on each radiator, because differences in design and venting rates of different valves." Thats from Chapter 8 It's All in the Venting of the LAOSH.

jbmoff

@Mark N

The vents are doing it more often now than before. It does NOT happen just from setback and even so, my setback at night is 67. Sometimes I bring it up to 69 in the morning.

I had all Gortons on the system (including my main vents) except one, Hoffman 1A and one, Dole Adjustable. System was absolutely perfect...this Gorton thing just crept up on me. I do recall that section in LOST ART, so I have tried to use the same type of vent. Nonetheless, I used differen brands in my old house and never had any problems with the hissing or even balancing.

Funny story: A counter clerk at Ferguson Supply told me this morning that they only carry Vari-vents there as I inquired about Gorton, Hoffman and even Dole. His response was, "It really doesn't matter, they all do and vent the same way no matter what the brand." Really?

A second clerk at Blackman in Mahhaw, NJ told me this morning they do do not carry Hoffman. Then he said, "Let me look on the shelf back there and see what we have. Oh, sorry. We have a 1A made by Bell and Gosset, but it is not a Hoffman." I nearly fell off the stool.

Mark N

The best thing to do is return the Gortons. They shouldn't leak when closed. Try the Hoffman's Fred seems to have good luck with them. From what I remember Chris J has an issue with them. They would hold some water, then not vent until water was blown out.

hvacfreak2

BobC said:

That explanation sounds like they are either trying to put the best face on a bad situation or they really do have their head in the sand.

It's best to own up to this problem and then do everything to fix it. People are willing to forgive a mistake, they are not likely to take being lied to with the same equanimity.

Bob

I am using this as an example of how I need to express myself with pen and tongue. I was thinking of 1 word when I read their reply. I'm glad there are no issues with returning at least.

BrianT1077

This morning I was able to exchange out my 4 Gorton's for new ones. Guess we will see what happens.

RomanGK_26986764589

Mark N, my gortons only behave like that when recovering from a 3 degree nightly setback from 67 to 70. It's funny I've just finished reading LAOSH yesterday and it mentioned about brand mixing.

Mark N

The Gorton's shouldn't leak when closed. When the vents start to close the system pressure will rise. Are you cycling on pressure until the stat is satisfied? At what pressure are you cutting out at? High pressure can cause vents to leak and hiss when closed.

jbmoff

No cycling on pressure for me. Pressure gets close to 1psi during a LONG call for heat, but never short cycles.
I'm pretty sure mine aren't closing at all. Hence, the steam begins to leak

RomanGK_26986764589

I'm cycling at 2 PSI about three times before t-stat is satisfied during setback recovery.

Mark N

Roman do you have a low pressure gauge. Is the pressure actually 2 PSI or is it higher? The settings on the pressuretrols aren't very accurate.

RomanGK_26986764589

Mark N, nope just a regular 0-30 gauge with a grey additive pressuretroll. The pressuretroll is set to 1 cut in and 1 differential inside the grey box. I heard that 1.5 to 2 psi should be acceptable.

Mark N

Have you ever considered not doing a set back and leaving the thermostat at 70?

RomanGK_26986764589

I thought about it but at the same time I like it cooler when I go to bed and waking up to hot and toasty rads feels awesome. Generally I need to add make up water once a month on the coldest days.

Mark N

Keep track of how much water is added. Keep a notebook by the boiler. More than 2 gallons a year is excessive.

RomanGK_26986764589

I usually add about 2 inches (measured on a sight glass) once a month. I have Weil McLain EG 40.

Mark N

You should determine how much water 2 inches is. Only way to know how much you're using.

BrianT1077

@jbmoff, yes I am in Bergen County, NJ also. I have used Wallington Plumbing Supply in Saddle Brook for a bunch of things. They are pretty good there.

jbmoff

Great resource. I work near Paramus so that's pretty close. Thanks!

nicholas bonham-carter

Roman, I recommend a setting of a constant 67 for you!--NBC

RomanGK_26986764589

67 is chilly! Good for the night, but not at day time. 70 isn't that balmy either. My family will definitely revolt. They're not even happy with 70 and keep demanding 72 or higher. But I keep insisting on 70.

jbmoff

I find steam heat at 72 can even be HOT at times. Although my wife likes the house toasty just not at night.

BrianT1077

I keep the house at 72 when we are home, away it setbacks to 68. Of course my wife always wants to raise it higher than 72. At night it setbacks to 70.

Fred

Funny, I keep mine at 66 day and night. If someone tampers with the thermostat, I can feel it in minutes. I start sweating!

RomanGK_26986764589

67 at night and 70 during the day for me. (only I have the authority to tamper with the t-stat ) Once I tried running at 72 and saw that boiler is running too long and the off cycles were too short. It was 19 degrees outside. However, upstairs was really HOT around 75 or so. I feel like I am under radiated downstairs. So after that I keep it at 70 so it wont get as hot upstairs.

Fred

RomanGK_26986764589 said:

67 at night and 70 during the day for me. (only I have the authority to tamper with the t-stat ) Once I tried running at 72 and saw that boiler is running too long and the off cycles were too short. It was 19 degrees outside. However, upstairs was really HOT around 75 or so. I feel like I am under radiated downstairs. So after that I keep it at 70 so it wont get as hot upstairs.

I doubt that you are under radiated on the first floor. I'm betting you have an open staircase to the second floor. They act like chimneys and draw the heat right up to the second floor. I have a similar situation but I have three floors and both have open staircases. For a number of years I only heated the third floor when it was being used. I learned that by heating it all the time, like the rest of the house, I could virtually eliminate the draw and my second floor is within 1 degree of the first floor. On zero or below days/nights, the variance may be 2* but not more and the utility cost was about the same. I guess because I was drawing all the heat up to the second and third floors, causing the boiler to run much longer to try and satisfy the Tstat, on the first floor.

vaporvac

Fred said:

Funny, I keep mine at 66 day and night. If someone tampers with the thermostat, I can feel it in minutes. I start sweating!

I'm exactly the same, but most people comment how toasty warm it feels. I've recently eliminated set-backs until I get the two-stage Tstat done, but am finding the even heat is really great. I think the consistent lower temp feels somehow warmer. However, 66deg with a FHA system would be chilly. It's winter folks, time to put on a sweater, grab a lap blanket and wear a couple of layers.

I've had the EXACT same experience with the open staircase funneling heat upstairs and now do the same, @fred. I still need to get some French doors between the rooms as were originally there and replace the one rad removed before my time for who knows what reason.

Fred

My house originally had pocket doors at three locations on the first floor. All were taken out many many years before I bought the house. I'd love them to still be there but I know I would always have them pushed back into the walls anyway, so not a big loss asthetically.