Memes

ChrisJ

I had made these over the past year or so but never posted them on here so I thought I'd share. Maybe some will bring a smile to someone's day.

I forgot about them until this morning. The first one is one of my favorites.

Bob Bona_4

I love memes.. Way beyond my computer skills to create but I get a kick out of seeing words used on pop culture images thanks for sharing!

Dave0176

Chris those radiators are piped incorrectly, there are no runouts or swingjoints lol...................

ChrisJ

I didn't draw it. However you failed to mention the fact they are piped into the tops of the mains which is far worse than no swing joints

njtommy

Lol some times u need a good meme. To make u laugh.

njtommy

..

ChrisJ

Speaking of, I wish I could find a superheat spec on a flooded evaporator. Seems like it doesn't matter as the headers in built into the evaporator are expected to handle that.

Dave0176

ChrisJ said:

Speaking of, I wish I could find a superheat spec on a flooded evaporator. Seems like it doesn't matter as the headers in built into the evaporator are expected to handle that.

Don't all flooded evaporators have accumulators, different conditions could have some serious liquid refrigerant flow back to the compressor, and that would be bad............. I assume a standard SH chart will suffice.

ChrisJ

Mine originally had a high side float and headers built into the evaporator

Bob Bona_4

Lol Tommy, got to make a new one for 410a, "what's yer subcool, bucky?"

ChrisJ

I'd think one for 410A would involve bursting pipes or leaks at the pressure it runs at. The systems I work on run around 26-28"HG on the lowside at 0-10 PSI on the highside.

Bob Bona_4

Yah, I had a few cases where the head reached 600 psi then the comp cut out. Bad txv, bad indoor fan etc

ChrisJ

That's insane.
No highside pressure switch or is that what the switches are set to?

ChrisJ

Bob Bona_4

600 is the high pressure cut out. 120 lo/325 hi would be a typical snapshot average conditions

ChrisJ

So basically 200 PSI across the pump.

Not much higher than R134A but quite a bit higher than R12/22 if I'm remembering correctly.

A whole lot higher than sulfur dioxide or methyl formate.

ChrisJ

The sink one isn't mine but is good enough to share. I think I've posted at least one of these here before but can't remember.

njtommy

Those gauges he's holding are correct for a 410a York system. There Microchannel coils suck.

ChrisJ

I find it hard to believe The Duke would ever use 410A.
He'd clearly be an R290,R600 or R764 man. He wouldn't play games.


I'm an R611 guy my self.

ChrisJ

Considering some new system rules for this winter. I already have the 0.5-2.0" w.c Dwyer switch and a 0.015" snubber on the way.

njtommy

Lol

njtommy

..

Bob Bona_4

Better delete the F Bomb one or Dan will pull this thread

Harvey Ramer

410 may be operating at a higher pressure differential but it also has higher enthalpy. Does more work on per mass flow rate.

makinsteam

Pardon my ignorance, what is a snubber?

ChrisJ

makinsteam said:

Pardon my ignorance, what is a snubber?

Basically a restrictor that stops gauges from responding as fast to pressure change.

ChrisJ

Harvey Ramer said:

410 may be operating at a higher pressure differential but it also has higher enthalpy. Does more work on per mass flow rate.

Here are the specifications on methyl formate, the refrigerant my 1933-34 refrigerators use.

Harvey Ramer

Chris
You should find an enthalpy chart for this refrigerant and plot your actual system performance to the chart. It would be interesting to compare to a modern refrigerator on 134.

makinsteam

ChrisJ said:

makinsteam said:

Pardon my ignorance, what is a snubber?

Basically a restrictor that stops gauges from responding as fast to pressure change.

Chris, I think I need this. My Gauge fluctuates with the waterlevel. Do you have a link to any further info?

p.s. In case you haven't gathered, you are becoming my heating rolemodel. lol.

ChrisJ

Harvey Ramer said:

Chris

You should find an enthalpy chart for this refrigerant and plot your actual system performance to the chart. It would be interesting to compare to a modern refrigerator on 134.

Harvey,
Did I do my math right? I came up with methyl formate having 17 times the enthalpy as R410A?

As far as I am aware right now, methyl formate's benefits are it is not a greenhouse gas and does not deplete the ozone. It's also a fantastic refrigerant.

It's downsides are it's very flammable, slightly toxic and breaks down rapidly when it comes in contact with moisture. It also breaks down when exposed to high temperatures over time. This is why these machines may need to be burped of non-condensibles from time to time.

ChrisJ

makinsteam said:

ChrisJ said:

makinsteam said:

Pardon my ignorance, what is a snubber?

Basically a restrictor that stops gauges from responding as fast to pressure change.

Chris, I think I need this. My Gauge fluctuates with the waterlevel. Do you have a link to any further info?

p.s. In case you haven't gathered, you are becoming my heating rolemodel. lol.

Thanks.

You may need to wait until I try mine as I just guessed at the size. If you go to Mcmaster.com and search for snubbers they come up. The number I went with is 3820K27 and 0.015" size, but I don't know if that's small enough or not yet.

makinsteam

You may need to wait until I try mine as I just guessed at the size. If you go to Mcmaster.com and search for snubbers they come up. The number I went with is 3820K27 and 0.015" size, but I don't know if that's small enough or not yet.

Ok, great. I'll wait for your feedback. I can get McMaster items through work, so this is great info.

ChrisJ

makinsteam said:

You may need to wait until I try mine as I just guessed at the size. If you go to Mcmaster.com and search for snubbers they come up. The number I went with is 3820K27 and 0.015" size, but I don't know if that's small enough or not yet.

Ok, great. I'll wait for your feedback. I can get McMaster items through work, so this is great info.

Actually, what gauge are you using?
When I was using a 3 PSI Wika I never had a need for a snubber, especially with it isolated big a pigtail. Even my 16" Dwyer doesn't need a snubber. The needle vibrating or bouncing a little isn't a big deal in my opinion. The problem is with my 0 - 2" Magnehelic gauge. If it piped in directly without a pig tail and without a snubber it vibrates so fast you almost can't see the needle.

This is the best I have on youtube to show what I consider, appropriate gauge operation. This is with a 1/4" ball valve almost completely closed to slow the gauge down.

https://youtu.be/hH36luC9GKU



This is what I mean by without a siphon. The 3 PSI Wika in this video is reading in the negative the entire time even though there is clearly a positive pressure.

https://youtu.be/XEJ4JD6ojjg

ttekushan_3

@ChrisJ, I think it's worth reposting one of your memes that struck me particularly funny.

Re: refrigerants, I'm a fan of R290 and R290/R600A blends. Never studied R611 before now. There's a lot to like about it.

ChrisJ

ttekushan said:

@ChrisJ, I think it's worth reposting one of your memes that struck me particularly funny.



Re: refrigerants, I'm a fan of R290 and R290/R600A blends. Never studied R611 before now. There's a lot to like about it.

R611 is really nice in many ways including the fact you can literally pour it out of a glass jar into the system via a funnel.


Thanks for resharing that, I forgot about that meme.

njtommy

Never worked on them. Worked on plenty of r11,r123 chillers and the rest of the standard refrigerants.

ChrisJ

njtommy said:

Never worked on them. Worked on plenty of r11,r123 chillers and the rest of the standard refrigerants.

They were only made by GE in 1933 and 1934.

njtommy

Well that's way before my time time I tryed looking some of it up. Not much came up, but the GE part.

I'm waiting to see how long 410a makes it.

Harvey Ramer

ChrisJ said:

Harvey Ramer said:

Chris

You should find an enthalpy chart for this refrigerant and plot your actual system performance to the chart. It would be interesting to compare to a modern refrigerator on 134.

Harvey,
Did I do my math right? I came up with methyl formate having 17 times the enthalpy as R410A?

As far as I am aware right now, methyl formate's benefits are it is not a greenhouse gas and does not deplete the ozone. It's also a fantastic refrigerant.

It's downsides are it's very flammable, slightly toxic and breaks down rapidly when it comes in contact with moisture. It also breaks down when exposed to high temperatures over time. This is why these machines may need to be burped of non-condensibles from time to time.

I don't know if you did or not. Very possible. I would compare the refrigerants on a pressure enthalpy chart. I am not familiar with Methyl Formate. I was talking more along the lines of the way people always flip out about the pressure differential on a 410 system compared to a 22 system without realizing that the 410 does more work per cycle. Not advocating for 410. Miserably high pressures.

njtommy

People are scared of change I guess. Im not really sure how much more efficient 410 is over 22, but we are seeing a lot more scroll compressors and larger coils for efficiency.

We where just talking about this the other day at work. We are starting to see less and less semi hermetic compressors and more scrolls compressors.

ChrisJ

Ah I see.
What I found interesting is when Freon came out in the 1940s it was said to have a far lower latent heat of vaporization than other refrigerants like SO2 and this was seen as a benefit as it was easier to control. Many methyl formate units have destroyed float valve seats which seems to be from wire drawing.

I had to convert mine to a capillary tube as the float valve was really bad.

I remember when R134A first came out for cars everyone said how bad it was, and it was warmer than R12. I converted an R12 system that used a fixed orifice and cycled the compressor to R134A and swapped the low side switch to a lower pressure one which resulted in 36F vent temperatures.

I never had any complaints about R134A when it was used properly.