Balancing my Heating system . Help .

Fred

misterheat said:

Here is the end of the main where it goes back into the return through 1 1/4 pipe . Vent where it is capped ? with that screw the last rad ?

You should be able to vent it at that capped pipe. Ideally you want a vent after the last radiator run but, in this case, It is so close to the very last radiator that there is practically no air that would burden the radiator vent other than what is in that radiator run-out (which is normal for radiators to vent anyway).

misterheat

thanks Gortons #1 or 2 ?? thanks fred

Fred

How long is that Main and what diameter again? Do you have enough headroom for a Gorton #2? Remember you will need to reduce that 1-1/4' pipe to 1/2" with a reducer and also put a 45 on it to make it verticle. The Gorton is about 7- 1/2 inches tall by itself.

misterheat

2 inch main 28 feet long 1 1/4 return. it rarely short cycles .only cold cold mornings after a 4 degree set back . Gortons number 1 in return line near boiler . I do have the over head room i believe .. probably 1 ft of room

Fred

If you have the headroom, I'd go ahead and put a Gorton #2 on there.

misterheat

SO on my one slow radiator this week i tried a new vari vent , a new maid o mist D vent and then i tried the one i had from the 60's and the old one worked the best . I did order a Gortons today it said it is equal to 8 regular vents .. We shall see. check out this relic in the picture 1907

misterheat

1907 the ideal fitter

Fred

Cool! Is it a general pipe fitter's manual or specific to Steam/Hot water systems?
What was the 60's vent? A Hoffman, I bet.

misterheat

Yes manual seems specific to those two you mentioned .its got a lot of cool stuff in it like pantry radiators with shelves and round and curved radiators. .radiator and valve charts and some very old tools. The 60svalve seems like a cheap vavle it has a metal band with different hole sizes .I just went with the biggest hole. I'll snap a picture.

ChrisJ

misterheat said:

i went to my neighbors to pick up the 2 radiators he was getting rid of and saw this baby in his basement .

I like how the gauge correctly says "PSIG" on it rather than just "PSI" like most.

misterheat

2 radiators that are in service in the office above me .

misterheat

radiators .

nicholas bonham-carter

lovely rad, and lovely floor!--NBC

vaporvac

Don't forget that window hardware. Beautiful!

misterheat

Everything in this room is circa 1903 . There are 2 Tiffany stained glass portraits in this room along with a chandelier as well. Priceless stuff . These radiators were noticed by a wise old plumber in a back room and re installed 20 years ago .

misterheat

Are these column rads ?

Captain Who

Those are awesome. 25 sections? I have one that is 17 sections but not with the ornate design. Beautiful.

Fred

Absolutely gorgeous!

KC_Jones

This is me being jealous. Very nice indeed!

misterheat

Here is one of the cooler things i found in the steam fitters book from 1907

Fred

Yes. We actually saw pictures on here a few weeks ago of a house that is being restored that had the round radiators in most of the rooms. I've seen pistures of the shelf style before also. Wish I could find some of the round ones.

misterheat

wow !! very cool . Some of the stuff in this book is crazy . so long ago

KC_Jones

Steamhead has posted some really awesome stuff in the past as well. I remember some corner rads and a church that had some "curved" pipe that followed the contour of the room. Awesome stuff.

ChrisJ

KC_Jones said:

Steamhead has posted some really awesome stuff in the past as well. I remember some corner rads and a church that had some "curved" pipe that followed the contour of the room. Awesome stuff.

I always like seeing @Steamhead‌ 's pictures.

misterheat

hi all, I have a vent question. When a vari- vent is open all the way is the orifice bigger than most vents? I have been experimenting with many different brands.

KC_Jones

If you are talking about a Varivalve made by Heat Timer then yes they flow a ton compared to most rad vents.

Captain Who

Blows 'em all away. Comparing to the next largest available radiator vents (Gorton D and Maid O Mist D), it is 56% faster venting at 1 oz/sq in, according to Gill and Pajcek measurements.

misterheat

Brilliant , I can confirm that after my vent experiment . thanks . I have an ancient valve that flows fast too no name on it . I will post pic

misterheat

Latest question: i want to change my psig gauge to either 0 to 3 or 0 to 5 lbs , which do you all think ? Second is there a better pressure control device than the honeywell pressuretrol ? it always feels so sloppy when trying to dialed down to 2 lbs or below ? thanks . BTW i found a great steam plumber locally with the help of this site .Scullys!!

Fred

Use the 0 -3 gauge. It is a bit more accurate at low pressures. Here is the link to the one most of us use: http://www.valworx.com/product/low-pressure-gauge-25-0-3-psi

We use a Vaporstat, 0 - 16 OZ. They are much more accurate at low pressures. If you get one, set the Main to 12 Oz. and the Differential to 8 OZ. That gives you a Cut-In of 4 OZ. Keep your Pressuretrol on as well as a back-up safety control. The Vaporstat just gets wired in in series. Here is the link to the Vaporstat: http://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-L408J1009-Vaporstat-Controller-Steam-0-to-16-oz-in2

misterheat

thanks as always !!!!

Captain Who

"Second is there a better pressure control device than the honeywell pressuretrol ?"

If you feel ambitious and want to save some money you can make a DwyerStat (MarkS designed it). One member is reporting his results on that currently. I have all the parts to build one except for the relay. I'm in no hurry because I feel it will probably short cycle badly with my overpowered boiler. I will be happy enough though to get the cut out down around 1 psi (instead of the 1.7psi that seems to be the lowest my ptrol will go) and the cut-in down around 0.25psi (instead of the minimum 0.5 psi of my ptrol). That might not short cycle too badly, epecially if I have some small steam leaks that I can find and fix. I feel that all radiator vents leak steam under pressure. The higher the pressure the worse it gets. The only force holding the orifice closed is the force in the bimetal spring or bellows and any pressure acts to oppose that. The spring force only increases on temperature, not pressure.

Mark N

Misterheat, Honeywell seems to be the only company that manufactures pressuretrols or vaporstats for steam boilers. But remember they are both only high pressure limit switches. The actual operating pressure of your steam system is determined by the size of the boiler, the size of the pipes, the amount of attached radiation, and the venting. If the boiler is properly sized under normal operating conditions the pressure will always be low. The only time you might see pressure is during a recovery from a deep set back. I've had steam for 25 years and don't think I've ever tripped off on pressure, unless I caused the pressure to go high to trip the pressuretrol to test cut out and cut in.

misterheat

Thanks !! i think i should start with a good gauge and see where my pressure is during the entire cycle. Wika 0 -3 lbs i heard is a good gauge. Then i will move on to pressuretrol settings . ok rookie question : should the steam main have a downhill pitch to it as it travels away from the furnace . I was up on a ladder and looked down the length of the main an mine has a steep pitch over about 26 feet. what should it be ? thanks

Mark N

Counterflow is pitched back toward the boiler 1" every 10ft, also need to use next size larger pipe. Parallel flow is pitched away from the boiler 1" every 20ft.

misterheat

SO over 26 feet it should be under 2 inches ? This is probably 6 inches over 26 feet . What problems could arise from excessive parallel flow ?

Mark N

I would think it wouldn't cause any issues, especially if it has been that way from day 1. Are all your pipe hangers still in place?

Fred

Your pitch is not a problem. The last thing you want to do is to try re-pitching mains that have worked fine for 50, 100 years unless they are holding water do to sags or settling. If your system is quiet, leave those Mains alone, as it relates to pitch. If I recall, you have a section of return that looks to be level and that should have some pitch added to it. The 1 inch per 20 ft. is a minimum pitch to get water to flow adequately. It is a rule of thumb. 6" is more than was required but not an issue.

misterheat

Cool, thanks guys wont touch them .The hangers are still in place . Now its on to make sure i have gas for the snow blower .supposedly 2 feet on the way .

ChrisJ

@JStar‌ How long until you install a steam system in your house?