considering putting a radiator in the basement

maybemark

I have a count of all the radiators, how tall, how many sections, how many columns

maybemark

SWEI
ok, thank you for your time

SWEI

51,000 BTU/hr would need 5.1 GPM at a 20˚F ΔT or 3.4 GPM at a 30˚F ΔT. Head loss on 3/4" Type L copper is 1.9 feet per hundred feet at 4 GPM and 2.9 feet per hundred feet at 5 GPM. Isn't most of your loop larger diameter steel pipe?

maybemark

yes, my loop starts off with 3" pipe, goes down to 2" pipe amd the last 20' os 1 1/2" pipe. most brances are 1" and the 4 radiator Fred added are 3/4" copper

maybemark

I'm a 60 year old baby when it comes to the boiler. I am trying to learn, and i have learned a little bit, for the short time i have been on this site. All the help that has been given to me, I truely appreciate. There is so much more to learn. I am not the one that will be doing the install. i will be helping, but, Fred will be doing the work. But he's old school, and needs knowledge when it come to mod/com boilers. I am trying to learn for him.
thanks everyone
Mark

Gordy

Mark I did your edr calcs you lose them??

maybemark

Gordy, did you calculate on an e-mail? I can check or from this site?

maybemark

Gordy calculated it before

You are over radiated for your heat loss that's good. 136000 btus for the whole house. that's based on 150 btus per sf of radiation at 180* water temp. So that means you can run lower water temps to the radiators so your HE boiler will be more efficient.
* is this what your looking for?

maybemark

Living Room:
142.8 SF EDR. 21420 BTUS at 180* water
84.0 SF EDR 12600 BTUS

Hall
30 SF EDR 4500 BTUS

Dining RM
51 SF EDR 7650 BTUS

M.Bed
39 SF EDR 5850 BTUS

Bed 2
30 SF EDR 4500 BTUS

M.Bath
21 SF EDR 3150 BTUS

Kitchen
58.74 SF EDR 8811 BTUS
74.76 SF EDR 11214 BTUS Figured these at 20" tall

Office
48 SF EDR 7200 BTUS

Powder RM
17.5 SF EDR 2625 BTUS

2nd Floor
Kitchen
60 SF EDR 9000 BTUS

Bed 100.8 SF EDR 15120 BTUS

Dining
29.37 SF EDR 4405.5 BTUS

Living RM
60.62 SF EDR 9093 BTUS.

maybemark

SWEI
is this what you were asking me for?

SWEI

The BTU numbers shown are calculated from the EDR -- what are the heat losses for each of those rooms?

maybemark

front hall 5496
living room 15565
hall 327

maybemark

dining room 6279
middle hall 723
master bed 6065
bathroom 2353
kitchen 7351
office 4266
powder room 1271
2nd bed 1360

maybemark

2nd floor
hall 116
bedroom 6527
kitchen 5472
bathroom 2604
dining room 3224
living room 7499

SWEI

Some of those names don't match up. Here's what I have, but something is amiss:

EDR Heat Loss
Living Room 227 15,565
Hall 30 5,496
Dining RM 51 6,279
M.Bed 39 6,065
Bed 2 30 1,360
M.Bath 21 2,353
Kitchen 134 7,351
Office 48 4,266
Powder RM 18 1,271


Kitchen 60 7,351
Bed 101 6,527
Dining 29 3,224
Living RM 61 7,499

maybemark

swei
I don't understand these numbers, and what do you mean that something is amiss

maybemark

some rooms have a couple radiators and the halls do not have any radiators

maybemark

I see the front hallway was left out with the radiators

maybemark

I see you missed the bathroom on the 2nd floor

SWEI

There is no 2nd floor bathroom shown in the EDR post. Just fix them so we have correct numbers, matching total EDR for each space with the heat loss for that same space.

maybemark

ok, I'll fix them sorry

maybemark

1st floor
room heat loss output
front hall 5496 4500
living room 15565 34020
hall 327 no rad
dining room 6279 7650
mid hall 723 no rad
mast bed 6065 5850
mast bath 2353 3150
kitchen 7351 20,025
office 4266 7200
powder rm 1271 2625
2nd bed 1360 4500

2nd floor
hall 116 no rad
bed 6527 15120
kitchen 5472 9000
bath 2604
dining rm 3224 4405
liv rm 7499 9093


bathroom radiator
8 sections 20" tall 9.5" wide 6 columns

maybemark

I typed it better than how it came out

SWEI

I was looking for EDR, but I can derive that from your output figures. Do the two halls have any exterior walls? It looks that way, in which case their ceiling and/or floor areas should have been factored into something else. Not enough to worry about in any case.

maybemark

I can give you edr, and no, the halls are inside

maybemark

front hall 30
liv rm 227
hall 0
dining 51
mid hal 0
mast bed 39
mast bat 21
kitch 133
powder rm 17.5
2nd bed 30

maybemark

2nd floor
hall 0
bed 101
kitchen 134
bath 18
dining rm 29
living room 61

maybemark

when i did a heat loss I used the slant fin calculator, that took everything into account

maybemark

what i wrote on the wall of the dimentions of the radiator in the bath is wrong
18 edr is correct

SWEI

System balance seems worse than I would have expected from the Dead Guys. The third column (ahem) here shows how many BTUs per square foot of EDR are needed to heat the room to the indoor design temp at outdoor design conditions:

EDR Heat Loss Btu/sqft
Living Room 227 15,565 68.6
Front Hall 30 5,496 183.2
Dining RM 51 6,279 123.1
M.Bed 39 6,065 155.5
Bed 2 30 1,360 45.3
M.Bath 21 2,353 112.0
Kitchen 134 7,351 55.1
Office 48 4,266 88.9
Powder RM 18 1,271 72.6


Kitchen 134 7,351 54.9
Bed 101 6,527 64.8
Bath 18 2,604 144.7
Dining 29 3,224 109.8
Living RM 61 7,499 123.7

maybemark

so, when you say worse, what does thiss mean?

Gordy

May be the dead guys did not do as bad as we think a lot depends on original floor plan verses modern changes through the structures history. Definitely some imbalances I was noticing too. But then we really don't know the floor plan, except obvious private rooms , bed rooms, baths.


I have to ask Mark did your heat loss reflect unconditioned space below main level floors?

Gordy

maybemark said:

so, when you say worse, what does thiss mean?

What it means Mark is experimenting with a one AWT fits all. Or TRVs. Or manual balancing with the rad valves.

In a perfect world which is a rarity your required btu per SF would be the same for each rad to heat the space with one AWT.

maybemark

I did not calculate the basment, and when i figured the 1st floor, i calculated as unheated area below

maybemark

did i mess up when i did my heat loss calculations?

Gordy

Only you would know. Your basement is 50* usually you indicated from previous posts. This would create a loss to the space above. Your room heat loss calculator asks floor detail for the space.( floor factor) What did you use?

maybemark

my house is not in the pefect world it seems, will the whn085 be good for me, and can i put a radiator in the basement, and I still not sure what is meant by worse.
will my system work?

maybemark

I did not figure the basement at all in the calculations.
I asked on a few posts i did, how it should be done

maybemark

did I mess up? is the 85K going to work for me?

Gordy

Say on the main floor living room. That floor is over a 50* basement. The floor factor on the slant fin calculator asks if the floor for the living room is over conditioned space meaning heated. Over unheated enclosed space etc what did you enter?