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Steam From Scratch

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Lovewell
Lovewell Member Posts: 6
in Strictly Steam

Just bought an 1840s farm house in Connecticut and am trying to restoring it.
I've put in steam before but never from scratch. I already have my EDR roughly figured out but am still figuring out all the supply piping. I'm thinking of doing 2 pipe with water traps on the 1st floor and 1 pipe to the 2nd floor. Or Just 1 pipe all together and forgetting the 2 pipe.

Any one have any tips or advice if you were to do this? Ive cracked open my old copy of the Color of Steam and a few others, but would appreciate to hear what some old timers might have to say about this.

Mad Dog_2

Comments

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 17,282

    I would do hot water with cast iron radiators because it has a lot more control options and the routing is much less critical so you have more options to get it in to an old structure, but if I were to do steam I would do 2 pipe and set it up as a vapor system with orifice plates because that also gives you more options for control.

    Another option would be to do steam for the 1st floor and do a hot water loop off of the steam boiler for the 2nd floor.

    Lovewell
  • Lovewell
    Lovewell Member Posts: 6

    Vapor system isn't a bad idea. I was planning on using danfoss thermostatic valves that go between the vent and the radiator which I've had lots of luck with in the past. So I can individually control each one.
    I also like the idea of only steam cause if it goes down it wont freeze and crack the radiators on the upper levels if done right.

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 27,540

    I'd agree with vapour type two pipe system. Orifices are nice, but if you get them too big you can just close the feed valve until you are happy. Or open it if your mother-in-law is feeling chilly…

    And I'd use traps on the radiator outlets. Much less critical.

    As far as routing pipes. If you can get at the basement — which I assume you can — I'd be totally honest about it and run the risers to the radiators on — not in — the walls where they need to be conveniently, and short runouts either under the ceiling or near the floor if they are needed. Separately to each radiator.

    Don't get fancy with the pipes — a good honest visible addition to an old house, particularly if you are leaning towards restoration rather than some fancy renovation, is much the best approach.

    If you don't have a copy of The Lost Art of Steam Heating (the store on this site, or Amazon) get it…

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 8,656

    This is awesome 👌. Is there something that intrigues you about The Steam? Are you trying to restore the Farmhouse to that era? I don't regret installing my Vapor System from scratch going on 25 years now. You do have great radiation options like Castrads to recreate that feel. As Mattmia said, a Hot water hydronic system is an option too using the same ornate radiators. Mad Dog

    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
    Lovewell
  • Lovewell
    Lovewell Member Posts: 6

    I've been rescuing and restoring a bunch of original American Radiator steam radiators. I'd rather give them some new life and save them from being turned into paperclips. I love steam, plus its the only type of heat my wife has no complaints about. Also I like the idea of something that will outlive me and is actually well built. Its more than can be said about mini splits that are being used to butcher beautiful older homes.

    dabrakemanRobert_H
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 8,656

    Enough said! Do you have The Lost Art of Steam Heating? Mad Dog

    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
  • Lovewell
    Lovewell Member Posts: 6

    Indeed I do! I was also digging around in radiant heating and cooling by napier adlam since I know Dan Holohan referenced the book more than a few times

    Mad Dog_2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 17,282

    i doubt it would be economically practical but i wonder if yo could do radiant cooling with ci radiators. you would have to do the supply dehumidified air thing to keep the dewpoint below the temp of the water.

  • Lovewell
    Lovewell Member Posts: 6

    I'm more so reading that book for the heating and snow melt aspects. The cooling Im sticking with plain ductwork

  • Lovewell
    Lovewell Member Posts: 6

    But you certainly could. Ive done radiant cooling with a slab before you just have to dehumidify the air a LOT with auxilary dehumidifiers like the ones that aprilaire makes

  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,788
    edited June 2

    I’ve always liked the photo of the journeyman in the jacket, tie and fedora helping to carry a radiant assembly. Imagine.

    IMG_1880.jpeg IMG_1881.jpeg
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    mattmia2Larry WeingartenGGross
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,421

    My brother talked to an old timer plumber that worked in NYC. In the old days they would travel on the Subway, and the plumber carried the toilet tank and the apprentice carried the toilet bowl……………………………..or maybe it was vice versa.

  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 8,656

    We've done that. Not with a toilet , but with oat sacks of fittings and tools. We used shopping carts in and around Rockefeller Center. Mad Dog

    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,570

    Where there's a will there's a way.

    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    Mad Dog_2

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