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Saw my first vapor system

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RayWohlfarth
RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 2,027
in Strictly Steam

I was looking at a 100 year old building with a vapor heating system. I was fascinated because it was my first. I made my son drive home so I could pull up info on them. By the way they were operating at 7 psi. LOL Here are some pics

air eliminator.jpg blr return trap 2.jpg blr return trap.jpg bzzh0.jpg inadh.jpg ottc1.jpg
Ray Wohlfarth
Boiler Lessons
mattmia2Mad Dog_2

Comments

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 17,282

    at least dunham's usually have radiator traps so they will mostly work at higher pressures.

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,639

    Change that wimpy little Hoffman #4A vent on the air eliminator to a Gorton #2, and you won't need nearly as much pressure. Remember, that's the only air vent in the system.

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

    Mad Dog_2Robert_H
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 2,027

    thanks @Steamhead there are other vents I plan to have them plug

    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,421
    edited May 29

    I like the "stop leak" tape on the leaking fitting.

    At least they have a phone jack by the boiler to call for service.

    What are they burning? Gas I assume.

    Doesn't look like the job has been monkeyed with.

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,639
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1897576#Comment_1897576

    Where?

    Reason I ask is the air eliminator is a Dunham, the return trap is a Hoffman, and one of the crossover traps looks like a Trane.

    In the Dunham and Hoffman systems, there was only one air vent (except on very large systems where there might be several) and the mains were vented using crossover traps, as seen here. But many Trane systems used more than one vent.

    If this mixing-and-matching extends to the entire system, there may be legit reasons for more vents.

    Looking forward to more pics.

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

    bburd
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 17,282

    the stop leak tape probably means that the boiler water has been circulating in the mains.

  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 2,027
    edited June 1

    More pics. One of the weird things is there was little if any pitch on the steam pipes. The customer said, there have been lots of leaks at the ends or each steam run. They used a McM 150 wired into a Hydrolevel water feed Never saw that before.

    FT Trap end.jpeg end of main.jpg rad.jpg rad trap.jpg rad valve.jpg makeup water.jpeg boiler.jpg condensate-ret.jpeg
    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,639
    edited May 30

    The radiator valves and traps are Dunham, and look original, so that's our starting point. It looks to me like the system was slow to heat and someone tried to fix it by adding vents, but the vents they used are way slower than needed.

    I'd need to see this system to be more specific, but another possibility might be to replace the crossover traps with larger ones like Big Mouths, which would vent more quickly. We'd have to measure the mains to see how much air is in them, so we could balance the system by making the steam reach the ends of both mains at about the same time.

    Where is this system located? How about some boiler pics? Is there a boiler-feed tank?

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 8,655

    We see I lot of mix-match Vapor Systems especially North of NYC. Mad Dog

    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 17,282
    edited May 30

    are those dunham valves the ones that have an orifice that looks like a thimble pressed in to them?

    i think when the mains rust out like that it means there is a lot of water in them, the drip of condensate and steam usually doesn't rot the pipe out.

  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 3,074
    edited June 1

    Was Connecticut a big boiler/boiler parts manufacturer way back when? I have seen a lot of items come up with Connecticut name plates lately.

    Mad Dog_2
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 27,539

    Connecticut was, and the Springfield area of Massachusetts. In fact, CT was a big manufacturing state — once upon a time. Not any more.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Intplm.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,421

    MA & CT made a ton of stuff. No more. Its mostly all gone to southern states or to China. We are wAAAy overregulated around here.

    Intplm.
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 8,655
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1897791#Comment_1897791

    Much of upstate New York River Towns too..Part of the Rust Belt. Very sad 😔. Mad Dog

    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,421

    @Mad Dog_2

    The way of the world. I was helping my cousin over the weekend set some 3000# concrete blocks he is making a foundation with. 6' x 2' x2'. He rented a big Lull type loader.

    He had some concrete to chip so he went on Amazon and for $76 bought a 1 1/8" rotary hammer. Came with a few bits and 2 chisels. Looks fantastic and it worked.

    We all know it is a throw away for that price but how do we compete with that? Like he said if it works for this job and quits he is not out any $$$.

    I have no clue how they can make something like that ship it here and make a few $$$ on it for $76. Poor people in China mut work for $.05/hour.

    Funny thing is his wife ordered it and hit the order button twice by mistake so he ended up with 2 of them. Called Amazon to return one of them and they don't want it back. They said keep it and we will credit you $30.

    So he gave it to me for helping out.

    PC7060Mad Dog_2

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