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Burnham v8 no start.

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joea99
joea99 Member Posts: 131
edited May 10 in Oil Heating

My Burnham v8 10 years old or more, newer R7184p 1080 control, started occasionally not starting, with the .5 x .5 blinking. Or maybe in stopped while running, it was always waking at morning and finding it cold. Always restarted with one push of red button.

Until today.

Usual blink pattern, Usual push button and hide around the corner. It would always restart cleanly. Today, it made not a sound and went into blink mode. The faster blink 1/2 sec on 1/2 off. No purge/prime/fan. No nuttin.

Not that experienced, but the manual for the control seems to suggest a cad cell issue. But I ain't got one to swap out.

Helpful suggestions?

Comments

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,593

    Yes. Call a pro. That control locked out for a reason, to keep you safe.

    Where are you located? We might know someone who can help……………

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 12,399
    edited May 10

    @joea99 said: "…was always waking at morning and finding it cold. Always restarted with one push of red button.

    Until today."

    This is a problem for me…. an oil burner that is operating properly never needs to have the reset button pushed. When it is operating properly, the. reset feature never gets activated. That reset feature indicated a problem. That reset feature is a signal that there was a flame failure. That reset feature happened for the first time many days or weeks ago. The term "Always" indicates that the first time you needed to reset the primary controls was not this morning. that "Always" indicates that you knew there was a problem and you did not take time to address the problem. That "Always" tells me that you believe that resetting the burner primary control is normal.

    LET ME BE CLEAR. "PRESS RED BUTTON ONLY ONCE" is not a suggestion. "PRESS RED BUTTON ONLY ONCE" does not meat once per day. PRESS RED BUTTON ONLY ONCE means just that "ONLY ONCE".

    Screenshot 2026-05-10 at 2.43.40 PM.png

    As soon as you needed to press the reset button a second time within a week, you shoild have followed the instruction on the control that reads "Call local service company"

    This is a clear indication that the average person does not read WARNING label, or if they do the fact that it says that it can cause death does not really matter.

    Live dangerously! You have been doing that since you pressed that red button the second time.

    DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A FIRE INSIDE YOUR HOME THAT IS MADE SAFE BY THAT CONTROL? Yes a real fire that no one is looking at. It's not like a camp fire where everyone is sitting around roasting marshmallows. Not a controlled fire that some is making sure that it does not get out of control and cause a forest fire. This is a fire in you home that no one is watching except for that L7184 control …and you can't follow a simple instruction that reads "PRESS RED BUTTON ONLY ONCE"?

    Please don't do that any more. Call someone to fix your oil burner.

    PS: I will send you a sticker that reads "RESET ONLY ONCE" in bigger letters, if that will help

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 3,543
    edited May 10

    It falls into a service lockout after three resets …. Telling the homeowner you need service … After the repair the tech knows to hold the button in until light flashes (45sec?) to reset …

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 12,399

    Have I mentioned that you should "reset only once"?

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 12,399

    Well that's half way to Albany.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,593
    edited May 11

    OK, I'm no expert on NY State geography, but here is a listing of some contractors in that state- hopefully one is near you:

    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/state/NY/

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

  • joea99
    joea99 Member Posts: 131

    I did not see any notice of it being "once ever" and never any as "absolutist" as yours. So, even after repairs are made, "no touchee here, never again appliies.

    I take you view as somewhat extreme, but meaning well,

    You make a lot of assumptions. I reset it may be once a month, rand fine weeks at a time, or more. There were no indications of "excess oil" before I pressed it and it lit off as normal, with call for heat. Nor were there any smell of oil as if it had failed due to no ignition.

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,593

    @joea99 , it shouldn't be locking out at all. If it does, something is wrong.

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

  • joea99
    joea99 Member Posts: 131

    I can add one more observation: When removing power entirely, as at the Red emergency off switch, and applying again, the green LED began blinking at the 1 sec rate almost immeidately.

    As most of you would know, after applying power, there is a noiseless delay of some seconds, the burner blower comes on for several (15?) seconds and it attempts to light off. But now, there is total silence, far as I can tell, an the light starts flashing.

    While far from being a pro, I installed this myself a decade or so back and have serviced it every year, myself, changing nozzles (and firing rates), adjusted for smoke and CO2 (old bacarach kit), filters, electrodes, etc. Changed combustion chamber liner last summer.

    But when getting into odd, to me, behaviors, I seek experienced advice. This is one of those times.

    I'm feeling my age (80 this summer) so not as energetic or patient as once upon a time. But I am about to do some basic take apart and ohm out that CAD cell, at least. My experience with call outs for emergency calls, has not been gratifying.

  • joea99
    joea99 Member Posts: 131

    Mid Hudson, near Kingston. I'll give some of them a shout this week. Most of this week is booked with Medical appointments and testing.

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • joea99
    joea99 Member Posts: 131

    Well, I thought so too, the question is, what? So here I am, a Guppy in with the Big Fish.

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 12,399

    @joea99 I agree that you may be able to reset it once, and if it runs for a month before needing another reset, then the next time you have no heat a month later, it would probably be acceptable to reset it once again. Your post did not indicate that, so I assumed the worst.

    Back when I started working on oil burners, the primary safety control was a “stack switch.” The most common one was the Honeywell RA-117 with a 90-second safety timing. Think about that for a minute—actually, a minute and a half (LOL). If your oil burner was running for 90 seconds with no flame because of weak ignition, and you had to reset it three or four times before the burner finally lit off, all that extra unburned oil would accumulate in the chamber. There could be a substantial BOOM when it finally ignited.

    That is why I still have a stack of “RESET ONLY ONCE” stickers on the shelf—although the glue may be dried up by now. Situations like that happened more than once with both customers and mechanics from the 1940s through the 1970s.

    Later controls improved safety by reducing the timing to 45 seconds. That was a big improvement. Your control only allows 15 seconds to prove ignition, which is considered the gold standard today. In fact, if someone still has a 45-second safety control on their oil burner, we strongly recommend replacing it with a safer 15-second control like yours.

    So if I sounded a little extreme, that is because my younger brother ended up in the burn unit after repairing an oil burner where professional boiler operators had ignored an ignition problem for an entire week. Three shifts of boiler operators had recorded the same note in the logbook every day:

    “Boiler #3 not operating / Reset once / Still not operating.”

    Day shift, night shift, and graveyard shift all did the same thing for a week. That is 21 resets with no flame (but only once a day by each boiler operator. At the end of the week, the supervisor reviewed the logbook and asked, “Why has this not been addressed? Call the oil company and get this repaired.”

    My brother found a bad ignition transformer and replaced it. While looking through the fire door to verify ignition, he started the burner. With all that extra oil built up in the chamber, the delayed ignition blew out his eyebrows and mustache and gave him a glowing sunburn in the middle of winter.

    Thankfully, he recovered completely. His eyebrows eventually grew back, although he is permanently bald now—but I believe that has more to do with age than the burns he suffered that day.

    And if you look at my previous post, the control itself does include a warning label.

    So I am an alarmist when it comes to reset buttons.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    Steamhead
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 12,399

    Looks like @Mad Dog_2 has a place in the Catskills that is less than an hour from you. perhaps that would be a good choice to contact. I think he knows how to fix an oil burner. He must have worked on at least one or two in his time. Try to PM him

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • joea99
    joea99 Member Posts: 131

    Wow. Glad he recovered well. Had a "blow the panels off" experience on a ancient Weil-McClain. Don't think it had any "purge" features then.

  • joea99
    joea99 Member Posts: 131

    I may give them a call.

    Right now, I found the CAD cell seem to ohm out as "open" on the 2000 scale and 6.03 on the 20K scale.

    I recon that CAD is over 1600 ohms by just a TAD.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,327

    If the burner won't try to start it is unlikely to be the cad cell unless you have a light shining on it.

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 7,500

    I actually had a client years ago who said, "I DID only press it once. Once when it didn't start. Once when it didn't start again. Once when it didn't start again..."

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,593

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • joea99
    joea99 Member Posts: 131
    edited May 11

    With just ambient light it reads over 6000 ohms, with my phone light on it, it drops to under 10 ohms. I now recall changing it out last year.

    I buttoned it up and did start right up last night and is working as of this morning. As it had been prior to this. But this time I held the button until the long blink. Prior to this it was only a second or two push.

    I probably need a good "flow chart" of the exact sequence of operations. Considering getting a control unit with LCD readout that preserves information, as it might reveal the problem right off.

    Today is dedicated to other issues.

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 12,399

    This actually happened to a customer of the FP Young Company in the 1980s. They had an old pancake-style coal conversion boiler. The existing oil burner was one of those inefficient Quiet May or Silent Heat burners with very poor efficiency.

    FP Young sold the customer a “complete modernization” package for about half the price of a new gas boiler. The work included:

    • a thorough cleaning of the boiler flue passages
    • removal of the old brick combustion chamber
    • a new Carlin CRD-100 oil burner
    • new limit control
    • new thermostat
    • new cad cell relay
    • new smoke pipe
    • new draft control
    • and a new Lynn Time-Saver combustion chamber

    The job also included a coat of white paint over the asbestos insulation and silver paint on the fire doors. It made the old antique boiler look and run like new. We even guaranteed 75% combustion efficiency using a Bacharach combustion test kit. This was to lower the fuel bill and save the customer from switching to gas heat.

    To measure the draft over the fire, the installer drilled a 5/16-inch hole in the fire door—the same door where coal would have been shoveled in years earlier—in order to obtain the over-fire draft reading.

    Now this is where the story gets interesting.

    After about a week of perfect operation, the customer called and reported no heat, so they shut off the emergency switch at the top of the basement stairs. The technician arrived, checked everything thoroughly, and determined that nothing was wrong. He restarted the boiler and left. No-charge warranty call.

    The next day, the customer called again with the same problem. A week later, it happened again. At that point, the service manager became involved because they needed to get to the bottom of it.

    You are not going to believe this.

    He discovered that when the basement light was turned on, a beam of light from the bare light bulb passed directly through the 5/16-inch hole in the fire door and cast a bright spot onto the brand-new combustion chamber in exactly the right location for the cad cell to detect visible light. The primary control interpreted that light as a flame signal and locked out the burner until either the basement light was turned off or someone physically stood between the light bulb and the boiler to block the beam of light.

    You can’t make this stuff up!

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,593

    @EdTheHeaterMan , I wonder how long it would have taken me to catch that one. Thanks!

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

  • Grallert
    Grallert Member Posts: 1,141

    Um wouldn't the burner remain off if it's "seeing" light? It wouldn't even start so it wouldn't lock out.

    Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 7,500
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 12,399

    I remember in 1972, that I didn't know that much about oil burners. I didn't actually work on them until 1973. After 1974 I knew everything I ever needed to know about them. Well enough to go and do a vacuum cleaning and tune up anyway. That was after I went thru the on the job training program the FP Young company offered to new employees in the service department, anyway. It was three years of heater cleaning before I actually was dispatched on my first ever service call. And I got it wrong. after three years experience working on just about every type of oil burner there was in the city of Philadelphia. And I got my first service call wrong. Can you believe it?

    Well it has been 50 years since that first service call, and I have discovered that in those 50 years, I didn't know everything in 1974. So maybe he is talking about experience. But I might be wrong about that.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?