Question about Erie zone valve

skyline137 · April 17

I’m starting a new discussion because I’ve narrowed down but not solved my problem. I have an oil fired hydronic baseboard heating system. I have 5 zones plus hot water. Zone 5 ALWAYS gets hot. If any thermostat on zone 1-4 or hot water calls for heat 5 get hot. It’s obvious the valve was stuck open. I purchased a new actuator and a replacement paddle for the valve body, the actuator is new and working and the paddle inside the body is new. Zone five is still getting hot, not just warm from conduction but blazing hot water is still flowing through it in both the closed and open positions. I didn’t inspect inside the valve body because it was hard to see inside and the original paddle showed damage. Could the valve body possibly be causing this. All other zones work perfectly and the two wire thermostat on zone 5 is new and working.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes · April 17

It could be that the valve seat is damaged or something is preventing the valve paddle from closing all the way. It only takes a small opening to get a lot of heat.

Could also be that you are getting two-way flow through the return?

skyline137 · April 17

The paddle is new, the original one is in the attached photo. I will have to open it up and if necessary clean or replace the valve body. I don’t think it is back flow because pipe from the manifold past the valve goes from cold to hot in a matter of seconds after the burner lights. It shouldn’t get hot with a closed valve. All of the thermostats are on 50 degrees only the hot water is active but as soon as there’s a call for hot water zone 5 pipe gets hot. I wouldn’t have even noticed it but there is a cabinet toe kick fan on that zone.

John Abbott · April 17

It's not seating and you are getting reverse flow when other zones are calling.I would replace the valve body.

HVACNUT · April 17

The old one looks pretty chewed up. And the paddle is cracked. There might be some plastic lodged in there somewhere. I've never replaced the internals on an Erie Pop Top. Can it only go one way?

As long as there's definitely no voltage to the actuator, you might be looking at complete replacement.

Imagine if you had to do it on zone 3. Joy.

skyline137 · April 18

The paddle can only fit in one way. There is a hole and. groove on one side of the body for the shaft. Easy to do remove retaining c clip and back cover put shaft in and put c retaining clip back on. This is a new body the shaft is the chewed up one. The new shaft is in the valve that is not working the shaft only can go in one position rubber paddle is permanently attached.

pedmec · April 18

This is why we, as techs, will replace the whole valve. It's not worth the risk to just change out parts of the valve and hope there isn't something else going on. If i was going to open up the valve and drain the system the smart play would have been to just change the whole valve body and actuator. Now your just questioning the issue again.

109A_5 · April 18

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1894590#Comment_1894590

I agree with @Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

With the paddle dilapidation as shown, it would not surprise me if the old valve seat is eroded also causing the zone valve to leak.

skyline137 · April 18

I should have checked the inside more carefully. I did put my finger inside and I didn’t notice anything. It’s my house and I will remove the back and check the seat. I will post a photo when I do. Thanks for the help.

HVACNUT · April 18

That's the way it goes sometimes. Doing what you did is a lot easier than replacing the valve body.

hot_rod · April 18

unless it is a very old valve where the brass has become brittle, the seat should be fine. It may have debris, teflon tape, etc stuck on the seat

The paddle and o rings look like maybe you have some aggressive fluid? Check the ph

EdTheHeaterMan · April 18

When Erie sales rep introduced me to the Erie Pop Top valve I bought into the ease of service because I was a Honeywell fan at the time, and the valve seemed to be very similar. 4 wires where the end switch didn't share a #2 terminal like the other popular valve. I installed 4 valves on my own system in 2002. it only took 4 years before I started having the same problem. After replacing one with a Honeywell, the second one failed and I replaced the other three with complete Honeywell valves. ERIE = NOT A FAN!

skyline137 · April 18

Still haven’t gotten to it. Procrastinating because it’s going into the 40’s at night all week. An open zone valve putting out heat is not a problem this week. All of my 5 Erie zone valves are 15 years old none has failed. I only realized that I had a problem with zone 5 because we had some very cold (0) temperatures a few weeks ago and I turned on the toe kick fan in the kitchen cabinet. It’s been off for about 5 years. It was on putting out heat during some recent 80 degree days. All my thermostats were set on 50. The dishwasher, washing, machine and showers calling for hot water were sending heat to the toe kick fan. I don’t know how long the valve has been like that I wouldn’t have known but for that toe kick fan. My central air and that zone were on at the same time.

skyline137 · April 19

If someone said “Erie zone valve” last week I’d have said, what is that? I now know more than I wanted to. My old valve, made before Schneider Electric took them over has a different design. The paddle in the new valve is a different size than the old one, It’s 2 mm smaller. The seat in the body is also different. The paddle

won’t seal in the old valve body. There are rebuilding kits and paddles for these valves none I have found have any measurements for the paddles.

HVACNUT · April 19

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1894675#Comment_1894675

Wow. That stinks. EK now offers Caleffi zone valves. If you can get your hands on a press tool, its a cake job.

skyline137 · April 19

It’s my house so I’m retired and I’ve got plenty of time on my hands. What’s really bad is I’ll probably have to change a few more soon! Thanks for the tip on Caleffi valves. I’m gonna look into it right now.

Crimp tool on Amazon about $150. Next valve goes I’m buying one!

pedmec · April 19

That's good to know. Thanks for sharing.

109A_5 · April 19

The seat looks a bit questionable.

Maybe you could drill out the rivet and flip the paddle over for a temporary fix.

EDIT: Not sure if the hole in the flat plate is centered.

hot_rod · April 20

Caleffi Z-One, union body/ press connection.

Motors and end switches are the most common failure on any zone valve. It's rare to see a seat on a valve that age, damaged. Anything is possible.

mattmia2 · April 20

those o rings are really trashed too. is there glycol in the system?

skyline137 · April 20

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1894706#Comment_1894706

No glycol but I have well water.

skyline137 · April 20

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1894695#Comment_1894695

The valve seat actually felt smooth. At this point I’m done with the trial and error. I’m just going to put new valve in.

mattmia2 · April 20

how does the gate for the old valve fit the seat if you put it in the new valve body? that will probably tell you if they changed something important.

Robertw · April 20

Be a great idea to add a fresh quart of 8 way while your at it.

skyline137 · April 21

it looks like they pressed a piece of brass pipe into the valve seat in the new valve. That piece of pipe decreases the diameter of the seat and protrudes slightly. Not messing around anymore just replacing the whole valve. If anyone thinks they can just buy a replacement paddle they should be aware of this.

mattmia2 · April 21

it looks like the new valve has a different cv than the old one.

skyline137 · April 21

I’m probably going to have to change all the zone valves eventually. I’ve had this Energy Kinetics System 2000 for 15 years aside from having to add a Tiger Loop for oil delivery problem and changing filters every year it’s been trouble free.

hot_rod · April 21

That is actually an orifice, it is pressed in and it determines the Cv of the valve. I didn't think there were different paddles for different Cv valves, maybe so with Erie.

Screenshot 2026-04-21 at 11.56.23 AM.png

skyline137 · April 21

The paddle I took from the new valve isn’t working in my old valve. I tried that as a quick fix. The orifice equals the size difference.

109A_5 · April 22

You may want to figure out what the Cv rating of your old zone valve is, or at least match the orifice inner diameter. So you can replace it with the same valve Cv. Looks like the newer one you have is a lower Cv which would restrict the water flow, possibly changing your heating characteristics.

hot_rod · April 22

If it us on a 3/4”copper tube loop you are probably moving 2 no more than 4 gpm. Most typical on the shelf 3/4” ZVs are 7-8 Cv

But a 5 even a 3 Cv would work fine.

Those smaller Cv valves usually sell to OEM equipment manufacturers. They are for application with high head circulators requiring a ZV with a high shutoff pressure.

mattmia2 · April 22

the more area to the seat, the more force there is…

skyline137 · 2:21AM

it’s 9:45 PM this zone valve thing has got me beat. I put a new paddle in my zone valve and took it apart again to check what I knew in my head was working properly. The zone valve back is off the valve looks PERFECT inside. The new paddle looks to work perfectly.

The seat looks new, perfect. This is a normally closed valve. The actuator is new. The thermostat is new. I know how to manually open these Erie valves with the lever. The lever is hard to push to open manually. When the actuator is activated and open the lever slides effortlessly. CLOSED hard to push OPEN slides easily. Why does my zone #5 get hot when the valve is obviously closed and every time the burner turns on?

The wiring from the thermostat is very straight forward no mistake which thermostat wire it is.
the red and white wire is zone 5. The red is spliced to black the white is in a bundle with the other thermostat wires. The black (spliced) goes to T5 (thermostat 5) on the controller.

The new actuator has two black wires one is connected to Z5 (zone 5) and the other is bundled with the other 4 zone wires. I DIDN’T TOUCH any wires just trying to to troubleshoot. I did connect the new two wire thermostat and the two wire actuator.

skyline137 · 2:27AM

hot_rod · 3:11AM

disconnect the wires to this valve when another zone and the pump is running

Does flow go past the valve? If not that valve is getting power when it should not

When you push the manual lever you are working against the spring tension. With that short lever it takes some force, plus the lever is sharp, hard on the fingers!

When the valve is powered open you are not pushing against the spring, it should be a floating lever.

You are sure it is not a NO normally open actuator?

In some rare cases a high head circ can slightly open a high Cv, low close delta p zone valve. But if it has worked in the past, that is not the issue

If all the above checks out, It sounds like the zone actuator is sending power to the valve, regardless of a thermostat call?

mattmia2 · 3:18AM

if you do end up replacing the whole valve, put a manual valve in series with it so you can shut off flow from that end definitively.

did you try removing power fro it before? it is possible the old valve was held a little bit open by some power it was getting and that wore out the gate so you now have 2 problems, a gate that won't seal and a contact that isn't fully opening or something shorted somewhere.

109A_5 · 6:24AM

Assuming it is basically wired this way (image below), you could disconnect the zone valve at the Red arrow, then command the system on with another zone and see what happens with zone 5, if any hot water leaks by.

Also another thing you could try, with the zone valve access cover off to view the actual valve operation. You could disconnect the zone 5 valve actuator wires entirely from the Energy Manager and apply 24 VAC (possibly from A1, A2 at the Orange arrow) to the zone valve wires and observe its operation.

And yet another thing you could do this is connect the loose assembled valve body (with the valve body access cover removed) to the zone 5 actuator, then use some other zone thermostat to activate the system to see what the loose valve being controlled by the zone 5 actuator does, it should remain 100% closed.

skyline137 · 8:04AM

The actuator is the same as the one I replaced. AG13A030 two position normally closed.it’s the same as the other 4 zones. It is working correctly, with zone 5 thermostat it opens and closes. The zone gets hot either way if the burner is turned on by hot water or any other zone. Nothing has been changed since originally installed.
The actuator feels like it’s working correctly by the feel of the lever. It can be opened manually by the lever with force on the lever. When thermostat activates it the lever moves right to left with no force. Could the new actuator be bad, not closing?

Robertw · 12:02PM

Disconnect the zone valve wires and test the system with a hot water call. If it still gets hot it has to be the zone valve. One thing to note if you have power stealing thermostats A1 should go to your R terminal on the thermostat subbase. Polarity is important and can affect the manager. Also if there is no common wire used it can create ghost calls with just enough voltage thru the manager to give you this problem .

You can dm me if you need further help

109A_5 · 4:48PM

You need to figure out why the water can move through the zone valve assembly. There is only a few possible reasons in my opinion. The valve leaks, the valve / actuator does not actually close the valve correctly, incompatible valve parts, there is a parasitic current through the actuator that is opening or partially opening the valve, the circulator pressure is pushing the valve open a bit.

I think that the circulator pressure is pushing the valve open (moving the actuator) is probably unlikely (but not impossible) if another zone is active, maybe activate more zones as a test.

If the circulator pressure is pushing the valve open a bit the valve body shaft passageway may be worn to the point where the valve does not seat properly under pressure.

The tests I defined above (previous post) test for different defects or different causes.

The first one, is the zone valve leaking with no power applied to the actuator.

The second, visual confirmation that the valve in the system opens and closes as expected. Independent of any Energy Manager / thermostat influence.

The third, further confirmation that the original actuator closes a valve correctly and if any parasitic current coming from the Energy Manager / thermostat when the system is actually in operation is opening or partially opening the valve.

By the way it appears your original valve actuators have the Cv rating printed on them.

HVACNUT · 6:51PM

I was under the impression there was 0 volts to the zone valve.

Question about Erie zone valve

Comments

Categories