Commercial Boiler replacement

gpjazz · April 3

I got a call from a customer that owns an apartment building and is asking for a quote to replace the boiler. He tells me it is a 1 million btu hot water boiler system (natural gas) that is about 40 years old.

I don't know much else about it, since I haven't seen the job. All I know is what he has told me. I assume it's gotta be zoned in some way for the apartments, but I have no idea yet.

I've done hundreds of smaller residential boilers in my 29 years of experience, but never replaced one of this size. But I'm certainly willing to go look at it and come up with a quote.

So can anyone give me any advice on things to look for, and things that may be different with a boiler this size?

gpjazz · April 3

Also,, I know that we don't usually discuss pricing here, and I know there's a lot of variables to figure out a job like this.

But what is a typical round-about "ballpark" cost to replace a boiler like this?

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes · April 3

More than $10K, but less than $250K. That doesn't help you at all, does it. No pricing means just that.

We would need to know more about the job in order to tell you what to watch out for. Take plenty of pictures of the old boiler, piping and any zone valves; expansion tank, indirect water heater?, etc. And ask lots of questions, like what's wrong with the existing boiler.

Radiators or radiant? You may need boiler protection if it's radiant. Plenty of make-up air? Is the exhaust in good shape? Correct size gas pipe? Do you have to drain the whole system to replace the boiler. Purging air problems?

Scaling up for a big job if you're used to smaller work means new tools to handle bigger pipe. Lots of things to consider, no?

Steamhead · April 3

And don't forget to do a heat-loss calculation on the building. If the present boiler is oversized (many are) you might be able to go to a smaller boiler that will use less gas, saving the customer's money two ways.

EBEBRATT-Ed · April 3

I can imagine the owner and the tenants not wanting you rummaging through the apartments to do a heat loss.

A radiation survey would get you close. I agree with @Steamhead the boiler should be the right size but in an apartment building is difficult without cooperation.

pedmec · April 3

Agree with all the points made so far but would like to add one. Never assume anything. Why would make you assume that the building is zoned? i can show you hundreds of older buildings that are not zoned in the greater boston area. I even have old converted gravity down feed systems that are not zoned. They are radiators. You can have direct return system. You need to really look over the building.

Plus find out the codes for your jurisdiction. In my state unless your a licensed pipefitter you will not be allowed to install a boiler of that size. Anything over 699,000 requires a pipe fitters license.

EdTheHeaterMan · 1:07AM

Wouldn't it be nice if there was an easy formula for pricing boilers, Like $1.23 per BTU, but it doesn't work out that way as I recall. Where are you located and what does does the competition bid on a job like this? You should be able to just call them and ask, right? That doesn't usually work either. Have you asked AI for that info? I just asked Alexa and she said "it depends". She is smarter that you think. She doesn't want to get in trouble for giving you bad info.

Hope this helps!

And one more thought! how do you know that the 40 year old boiler was the correct size for the building. back then a lot of mechanical engineers went with the Bigger is Better sizing guide so they didn't get a law suit for undersizing the boiler. Besides they didn't have to pay the fuel bill of being inefficient, and they DID get paid for making the system oversized.

EBEBRATT-Ed · 2:07AM

In the old days they used to say take the price of the boiler and double it=installed cost.

That never worked IMHO.

I found at one time if you took the cost of all the material including the boiler and doubled it that was in the ballpark.

But that was long ago.

With today's labor and material cost its anybody's guess

EdTheHeaterMan · 2:12AM

I remember that pricing system @EBEBRATT-Ed when I started to price jobs. That was a ballpark price not one that I would bank on though. I got burnt on a job pricing that way.

Actually got burnt by trying to work on some smoke pipe to cut in a barometric while the burner was still running. LOL 🤪

Mad Dog_2 · 9:20AM

Tony Kiter (RIP), an Old Timer from Mineola and Licensed Master Plumber gave me a very simple Rule of Thumb when I was putting out my Shingle that I have found rings true in 2026:

"If you want every job, Double the cost of materials (1/1 ratio)."

If you wanna be "competitive," go two times the material cost (2/1 ratio)."

If you wanna make $$$, go three times the materials cost (3/1 ratio)."

You'll find YOUR breakeven and profit margin somewhere in there. Mad Dog

clammy · 10:24AM

I was told ions ago all equipment and materials x 3 and you will be able to do the job properly and possibly pay yourself a little . On a side note being a low baller will help no one when you did not make any money you usually do not return being you have a bitter taste like working for nothing . Which none of us like to do . As of lately that x 3 rules means nothing being the public utilities are charging way more but got to remember zero financing which leaves little guy like me outta the picture .

In these times x3 really isn't being greedy if your doing everything on the up an up unless ya skip a couple of steps you should be able to eat and lets not forget your business expenses and all the cost that your customers pay ya just ta get ya there . All that being said maybe ya like to make no money and work for free it certainly ain t me thats for sure .

clammy

MikeL_2 · 11:25AM

I suggest considering installing 2 or 3 smaller boilers to match the load at design conditions.

Be prepared for extra wiring costs for lead/ lag, cascade, outdoor reset, constant circulation, and other control and piping strategies including combustion air requirements.

Hire a shoring / rigging company for boiler removal and getting the new equipment in place.

I've done several change outs this way and the heat loss has always resulted in a lower btu requirement.

gpjazz · 11:30AM

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1893617#Comment_1893617

Yes, I was thinking about this as well. I doubt that I would be able to go thru every single apartment, all at once, to do this.

But I also don't know what type of emitters are there yet, nor do I know how much radiation is in the entire building for boiler sizing. Again, I was told it's about 40 years old. So I would likely guess it is probably over-sized.

gpjazz · 11:31AM

Yes I know.. Was just asking as a starting point.

Steamhead · 4:25PM

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1893646#Comment_1893646

I'm sure the leases for those apartments specify that management has to have access for maintenance and repair work. Normally they have to give a certain amount of notice for this. Check with management and local laws.

Paul Pollets · 4:52PM

I always installed multiple boilers for large loads. The boilers would be controlled by a boiler computer, allowing staging and redundancy. I use a spreadsheet to determine the pricing, which has been refined over the years. Never guess the heat loss or the true cost of materials and labor.

Commercial Boiler replacement

Comments

Categories