HELP - I've had to replace my gas boiler TWICE - every 10 years

ljh_2 · February 3

Bought my 1700 sq ft home in 2003, purchased Dan's book to learn about steam heat. In 2006 I replaced the gas 40 year old furnace with a new one (I think it was a Peerless) to be more energy efficient. It was installed and serviced every year by someone recommended on this site. They calculated the size by measuring all the existing radiators in the house. In 2016 I had to replace it because a crack developed in the heat exchanger, was going through a crazy amount of water and cycling on and off constantly. They replaced it with a Weil-McLain EG/PEG 45 series 5. And now 10 years later (but again, out of warranty) I have another crack in the heat exchanger and am looking at having to replace the boiler yet again.

Any idea what the hell is going on? The town I live in has hard water - is that the problem? Are there any boilers that have longer warranties than 10 years? Any brand you can recommend? I'm a senior citizen and I can't keep doing this!

Thanks.

LJH

Ironman · February 3

Water quality is most likely the issue. Changing brands probably won’t help.

Are there any leaks on the system? If so, they should be corrected with the installation of the new boiler. Otherwise, you’ll just be dumping fresh water into the system with whatever is killing (likely chlorides) the boilers.

Very little water is regularly added with a leak free system.

ethicalpaul · February 3

yeah we’d have to know how much water you were adding, that’s the number one metric that matters in my mind.

I can’t imagine those two boilers rotting out in 10 years without a massive amount of makeup water, regardless of your local water quality.

Did the peerless crack, or did it get a hole rusted through it? The difference is important

Also, is this steam, or hot water we're talking about? Although the concerns about fresh water are there for both kinds. Edit: OK it does seem to be a steam boiler situation

Gabriel82 · February 3

well, that's how long new gas boilers last.

I changed one Saunier Duval after about 12 years.

And the electronics failed(not worth repairing and no spare parts available).

Next is a condensing unit installed about 2 years old now.

No problems whatsoever! (so far...)

As for your faults: if it was the main heat exchanger(not secondary one plates type for domestic hot water) , that's the one that usually takes the whole brunt for most of the time!

And I know an enginner at Renault(yes cars not heating stuff) but he does all the AC systems testing in new or prototype cars.

He admit it: they usually design and build a product as best they can with the given materials(not the best/expensive) then after few tests they"put"/create faults in the products and then re-test a number of hours so they fail after sold to customer, shortly after it goes out of waranty.

It's common practice in many domains ,so they sell more products or spare parts(wich "coincidentally" are not cheap...)

The age of very reliable products that last decades is long gone.

I would say it ended somewhere in 2000's.

Viessman and MHG still make good products ,from my knowledge(not much experience, I lost patience with oil stuff).

Or maybe I'm wrong 😁

https://mhg.de/

Gabriel82 · February 3

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1886032#Comment_1886032

PH can be measured ,filters changed regularly, leaks cannot exist.

I would consider that a technical failure and stop using the gas heater until it's solved!

ethicalpaul · February 3

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1886042#Comment_1886042

That may be how long condensing boilers last, but that is not how long atmospheric cast iron boilers typically last. The original poster said "furnace" but they seem to be talking about boilers—not sure what technology of boiler though.

Gabriel82 · February 3

@ethicalpaul well ,photos needed?! 😁

I know of about 30 year old Viessman oil boiler converted to use waste oil(with air compressor) that still works with no problems...

More mandatory cleaning of heat exchanger due to fuel used.

But other than that... It will put you in underwear when outside is minus 15 Celcius...

ethicalpaul · February 3

I did finally realize this thread is about steam boilers so maybe it should be in Strictly Steam @Erin Holohan Haskell (is there a user name we can tag for admin Andrew?)

mattmia2 · February 3

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1886051#Comment_1886051

there is a @HeatingHelp.com user that is presumably whoever is whatching things at any given time.

i'd probably go as far as putting a water meter on the makeup water to the new boiler in this case so you know exactly how much water is escaping from the system under normal operation. if it is more than a few gallons a month(usually more like a gallon or less a month on small systems) you need to have someone find and fix the leaks or you'll be buying another boiler. another possibility is brands vents that don't close quickly and allow a lot of steam to escape every cycle.

pedmec · February 3

You said its cracked, not corroded, which makes a big difference. An accurate description will help diagnosing.

There is more than one way to crack a boiler. Are you dry firing? Is your "near boiler piping" installed with a swing joint at the header to allow for expansion.

How is the cold water feed installed in the system. Did they pipe it into the condensate return piping or did they incorrect install it directly into the boiler thereby shocking the boiler? a pic would be nice

mattmia2 · February 3

There are also a number of options to treat the incoming water, like an ion exchange cartridge that can be used when the boiler is filled and maybe with makeup water which will help if there is somewhat excessive makeup water but it won't save the boiler if there is a lot of makeup water.

EBEBRATT-Ed · 3:55AM

Maybe a Burnham is in the future. I would wonder if it has a water feeder.

And yet the boiler prior to 2006 lasted 40 years.

Quality has gone down hill.. Boilers are smaller and lighter and less Iron.

Gabriel82 · 5:15AM

@EBEBRATT-Ed Smaller yet with more surface area is fine with me.

With more efficient burners, more powerfull pumps.

If they'd make them out of inconel625 or 904L

I wouldn't "mind"

😁

Kiturami has an interesting design that works in condensing oil boiler.

Just don't use fuel with high sulphur in it.

Might fall apart ,even if its 316 stainless...

Although still a tubular tubes even finned design.

Originally from the 1800's 😁

I'm still "waiting" for an oil condensing boiler with 109% efficiency with thermal conductivity of copper ,corrosion resistance to any acid and lifetime warranty on anything in it 🙄

109A_5 · 6:47AM

Condensing boilers, pumps…

" purchased Dan's book to learn about steam heat "

I kind of got the feeling this thread was about failing steam boilers ?

Gabriel82 · 11:00AM

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1886135#Comment_1886135

boilers fail because they are made/built with cheaper materials and manufacturing technics that give it just enough hours/running time to get out of warranty with no failure.

Materials/alloy technology is so far ahead that it can actually design things like these that fail.

A crack in heat exchanger is a stress /metal fatigue failure.

That will appear anyway with time AND heat cycling...

These heat exchangers don't fail just by sitting at 18 degrees Celcius room temperature ,38% air relative humidity and no sun or radiations of any kind...

BUT a heat exchanger could be engineered by using the correct alloy to fail after 20 years of continous or intermitent use!

Why would ANY manufacturer do that?

They, themselves, might not be around as a company in 20 years from the moment they put on sale a certain boiler model.

The point is to build a decent enough product while not spending a lot, sell it for premium money, make it last until its out of warranty(why replace you yourself parts for nothing?!) and offer the customer the right part for a big enough price ,not to "scare him" to your competitors!

The boiler might work for 1-2 years then fail again.

And so on ...

Until the "sucker"/customer gives up and buys a new boiler.

Cycle repeats!

From my experience only dirt/mud is "reliable" 😁

That's why I heat my rear with ceramic tile stove!

Nothing(or almost) to fail.

I love it.

HELP - I've had to replace my gas boiler TWICE - every 10 years

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