Trane Forced Air Furnace Leaking Water
I noticed a puddle under my furnace today. The furnace is two twinned American Standard Trane 120K BTU gas forced air units that operate together (model AUC1D120A9601AD).
I removed the panels and could see the leak right away. There’s a steady drip from the aluminum tray that separates the section where the inducer is and the control board is. The leak is a little more than halfway towards the back of the unit (well past the inducer). It’s dripping on the blower motor.
I removed the inducer and all associated tubing, and flushed the small white collection box. No signs of a blockage or water collecting anywhere.
Yesterday while shoveling the snow I checked the 3” flue gas pipe that exits the house It wasn’t blocked at all, but I made sure to remove all of the snow underneath.
Any ideas on where the water is coming from and what I can do to address the leak? The furnace seems to be operating as normal
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I had a service tech come out. He said that the unit could use a good cleaning, and that it looked like it was leaning slightly to the right. The cleaning needs to be scheduled, so I'm on HOLD until I get a call from the office tomorrow to schedule.
I can't say I have a lot of confidence that it just needs a cleaning, but we will see once the unit is opened up.
More to follow.
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either a tube or the passage a tube connects to is clogged or something is cracked or a gasket is leaking. of the secondary hx is cracked. does the flame change at all when the blower starts? can you see where it is leaking from, i see it is crusty under the inducer fan. also if you don't fix it, it will rust out the cabinet really quickly because in addition to being wet the condensate is acidic
if you use a funnel and a big cup otr small bucket of water does it pour through the tube and out to the drain feely? if there is a condensate neutralizer those can get clogged. did you take apart the trap in the furnace and clean it?
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I pulled the inducer and all of the associated tubing, including the condensate trap. Everything was clear and free flowing. I flushed the condensate trap anyway and reassembled.
I cannot see where the leak is coming from. As you know theres a shelf that separates the top of the cabinet from the bottom. Water is dripping from the underside of the shelf into the lower section of the cabinet.
I told the tech I was concerned it was a cracked HEx, but he felt confident it was not. He said the flame was too steady, and that the furnace would shut down if that was the case. Theres a drain tube that exits the HEx; he pulled the tube off the port and looked in with his flashlight and said he could see some "gunk" and that it needed a cleaning. He also felt that the furnace was slightly leaning to the right, and the drain hose I just mentioned is on the left hand side, so he felt the condensate may not be flowing into the tube as it should.
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did you actually pour water through the part that goes out to the drain and make sure that was clear, that it isn't clogged or kinked or something where you can't see it? if enough is backed up in to the inducer housing or if that is cracked it will leak out of there (and it will trash the bearings in the inducer). i'm not sure that a crack in the secondary hx small enough to allow a little drip would leak enough air to affect the flame or trip a pressure switch. the only thing that is behind that partition is the hx, the collector box seals to the hx as it comes through the partition so if that gasket is leaking it could leak condensate behind the partition
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I removed the white condensate trap, brought it upstairs and placed it in the sink. I ran water into it from each port to make sure it was free and clear.
When I removed each section of tubing, and when I removed the inducer, there were no signs of a piece of tubing or the inducer having any water in them (i.e. they were not clogged).
From what I see it APPEARS that water is not exiting the HEx or collector box (?) or whatever the black tubing is connected to (the black tubing I am referring to doesn't show well in the first photo, but it is just to the left of the translucent tubing thats connected to the bottom of the pressure switch). Instead, the condensate is being trapped inside and then ? overflowing ? and leaking out the right hand side of the unit. If its a gasket issue I'll happily pay for a service call and have the tech either replace the gasket or seal it up with some hi-temp sealant.
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it looks wet and crusty under the inducer fan so my guess would be the leak is on that side somewhere. the inducer also kind of flings condensate all over the inside of the housing so it could leak anywhere on there if something isn't sealing well on the housing. it looks like that is a multiposition furnace so there will be parts that are there for it to drain the condensate when it is horizontal. if you pull the blower and look up you might be able to see where it is leaking.
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Definitely crusty but no moisture under the inducer (the photo isn't the best). It's just a decade of basement dust. I'm expecting a call back from the service tech tomorrow to see when they can come back. If they're not coming tomorrow I may pull the blower, but it looks heavy and a PITA to remove and reinstall (with reinstall being the biggest concern).
I ordered the collection box gasket (GKT 02606) from Parts Direct with overnight shipping just in case. It will be "pulled" tomorrow and arrive Thursday. Not sure I will need it, but if the service tech comes Thurs or Fri and it is the gasket hopefully I'll have it on hand to prevent delays from him having to source it.
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the control board and the condensate tubing in front of the blower that you have to move off to the side will be more of a pain than the blower itself. the blower is just a couple screws and it slides in to a bracket or track so you take the screws out then unhook it.
the blower isn't light but isn't super heavy, i'd guess probably 20#-30#. it is more awkward than heavy.
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It's likely a cracked "receptacle" .. That's what Trane / American Standard call it.
Behind the inducer motor is a metal plate that has some screws in it that secure it to the secondary ht exc outlet. Behind that metal plate towards the bottom is a black plastic piece called a "receptacle". This part always cracks and leaks water. 9 times outta 10, this is the cause of the leak. They usually crack around where the screws are.
If that piece is ok, then it's likely a bad secondary heat exchanger ( 1 time outta 10 )
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gpjazz - thanks for your comments. I watched a video for another model Trane where this was the issue. I had the inducer out and didn’t notice any cracks, but I wasn’t necessarily looking for them. In hindsight I should have ordered one when I ordered the collection box gasket.
I haven’t heard from the service tech today so I’m guessing I won’t be seeing them today. I might pull the inducer again - and maybe the blower as suggested by mattmia, so I can narrow down the issue.
I’ll be thrilled if it’s a $50 part and not a new HEx.
Thanks to both of you for your guidance.
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you could probably seal it up with some permatex or epoxy until you can get the part
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So - the service tech was supposed to call me with a date but did not. I was patient until about 1030am then called the office.
The person I spoke with reached out to the tech, then came back and said he needed a collection box gasket that they did not have in stock so he couldn't come until sometime next week. I asked her to contact him again and let him know that I ordered the gasket for Thurs delivery. He's now scheduled to come on Friday.
I continue to doubt whether it will just be the gasket but we will see. I am still planning to check the transition piece behind the inducer, and MAYBE pull the blower this afternoon. Will report back if/when I have anything new.
Was quoted $500 to replace the gasket. Ouch. When I removed the inducer I thought about going deeper into the unit, but concerns about causing a bigger issue or the risk of CO made me stop there. If the gasket arrives early tomorrow I may give it a go…
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there probably is a small co leak where the piece is cracked if that is what it is, very unlikely to be enough to be dangerous especially since the air side is under positive pressure and the combustion side is under negative pressure
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I dug in a little deeper. Unfortunately no smoking gun. I pulled the inducer and the blower. Here's what I found:
- The leak with the blower in place. This is the right hand side of the top of the blower:
2. I removed the blower. Felt around to what I can reach up inside the opening where the blower is. Mostly everything felt dry, except for MAYBE some dampness on the right hand side. When I reached up on the right hand side I found a small black piece of plastic lying on top. It's probably nothing, but here it is:
3. I climbed inside and stuck my head up into the opening. I'm in my 60's - definitely too old to be doing stuff like this. Did not see any water dripping, nor did I see any puddled water. In fact, almost everything looked dry as a bone and I could feel dusty grit everywhere. When I looked back towards the front of the furnace (where my legs were) I could see evidence of water because of the rust. But no pooled water.
I attempted to take some photos by sticking the camera up into the opening at different angles. Most photos came out blurry or simply showed SS coils. The most interesting photo is below, which was facing the camera back towards the front again (interesting because the aluminum isn't straight). The "floor" looks shiny but it is dry:
That's it for the blower removal.
4. I also pulled the inducer to take a look at the transition piece. I thought more of it would be visible. I did not remove the alum plate in front of it. It looked like this:
FIrst question: can I easily remove the (5) screws (four at the transition piece, one in the recess to the right) to remove the aluiminum plate? WIll the black transition piece remain in place when I pull the plate, or will it come away with the plate? Anything I need to know for the reinstall? Will it simply slide back into place? Do I need a new gasket or just put everything back together?
5. Lastly, photo inside the transition piece:
6. If I pull the aluminum plate, is it much more work to access the collection box and replace the gasket? The new gasket should arrive tomorrow.
What do you think based on these findings (or lack thereof)? And thanks for providing the confidence to pull the blower. It was pretty easy and straight forward.
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I know nothing about that particular model of furnace, but i'd imagine if you take that half a dozen hex head screws out that galvanized plate that the inducer mounts on just pulls out and from there you will see where it is leaking. it looks like the collector box might be 2 pieces and have a gasket between the 2 as well as between it and the hx. I would be prepared for a piece of the collector box to come with one of the screws if it is indeed cracked, i'd be prepared to temporarily epoxy or maybe even foil tape it back together until you can get the correct part. the gasket just sticks on to the box which is both easy and tedious to scrape off the old one. a heat gun might help but be careful to not melt the box.
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That means you’re assuming that the collection box - and not the HEx - is cracked? Not the black plastic transition piece? I thought the transition piece was suspect and the reason to remove the inducer and transition piece to further inspect it ?
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i was thinking of the transition piece and collector box as all one part but i suspect that is why it looks like there is a seam, there are 2 pieces. i think they are both behind that galvanized plate. if you remove the plate i think the problem will become obvious.
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Unfortunately no. Removed the inducer. Took off the aluminum plate.
Behind the plate is the black transition piece - and a solid wall of (fiberglass?) insulation, which I assume is covering the HEx/collection box.
I attempted to remove the transition piece. Took out the four screws. The top had some caulking/adhesive on it but came free pretty easily. The bottom did NOT want to break free. It feels like it's maybe hooked into the insulation and collection box somehow. I pulled on it a bit, but it didn't want to come free. I was concerned I'd break it, so I put everything back together.
The screws on the top of the transition piece we a bit rusty, as was the caulking around the top of it.
I think I've done everything I can do at this point. The collection box gasket arrives tomorrow and the service tech Friday.
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It's most likely that black plastic piece which is called a "RECEPTACLE"..
When you remove the galvanized metal plate, which I think is just 5 screws (that are typically rusted), then you will easily see the black plastic piece. I can't remember exactly, but I THINK there are 2 more screws that hold the black plastic piece in place, along with silicon adhesive. But this piece should come right off and then the cracks in in will be obvious.
Again, the cracks in the plastic typically occur where the screws from the galvanized metal plate on the bottom go into the plastic.
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I did take the galv plate off. The receptacle was loose at the top, but the bottom did not want to come loose. Maybe it was just silicon. but I thought it might be hooked in somehow and didn’t want to pull too hard. No cracks were visible. Pic below. (The two screws on the LHS are back in as I was starting the reassembly).
I may try again today and see if I can cut away the silicon with a razor blade to take it out.
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Ok, it may be 4 screws holding the receptacle on.. 2 on each side
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yes, two on each side. All 4 were out. The receptacle still did not want to come out, likely due to silicon on the bottom holding it in.
I started the reassembly by placing the two screws on the left hand side and then snapped the picture. Before taking the picture, ALL of the screws were out.
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Okay, so I went back and removed the inducer AGAIN, pulled the galvanized plate, and cut the silicon caulking around the receptacle and was able to wiggle it free.
It is not cracked.
There was nothing I could see with the receptacle removed that indicated where the leak is originating.
It's gotta be EITHER a cracked collection box OR an issue with the gasket. If I'm lucky it's the gasket. Unfortunately I'm not feeling very lucky.
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Well I hope you don't feel like I misled you..
Most of the time, that black plastic receptacle cracks and leaks water. The cracks are usually just a hairline crack, but still enough to leak
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if those screws are prone to rusting i'd probably put a dab of pipe dope on them as i put them back so they don't rust in place
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you said the unit was leaning, I wonder how much? condensate removal depends on the unit being pitched to manufacturers requirements, not sure what that brand recommends but I know with my brand its an important step to follow and will result is improper condensate removal which presents itself as leaks. Could just be lucky and have a cracked or broken part though fingers crossed.
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I haven't put a level on it. If it's leaning, it's not much. There are two units side by side, and you can see there's a slightly larger gap at the top between the two units than at the bottom. Maybe 1/8 - 1/4".
The receptacle I removed was definitely not cracked. It got a thorough inspection and seemed dry on the outside. The rate of the leak (maybe a large drop of water every second) isn't a hairline crack kinda thing. There's too much water dripping for that.
gpjazz - no, I don't think you, or anyone else, mislead me. I am thankful for everyone on here taking their time and making an effort to help strangers. Nothing but thanks and appreciation coming your way.
With that said, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't frustrated. I've tried everything I (and everyone else) can think of. We've narrowed it down, but as the days go by it is looking more and more like a cracked HEx, which will be costly. I also am scheduled to travel first thing Sat morning, and if the service tech is wrong and it's not the gasket, I'm guessing the repair then gets pushed to next week (no way my wife is letting me travel with the furnace leaking water). So the likely outcome is a $3000 - $5000 repair and a delay of another week.
I should know one way or the other tomorrow. Wish me luck!
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Like I said,, 1 outta 10 times its the secondary heat exchanger leaking.
Things happen
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I put a small torpedo level on top of each of the two side-by-side furnaces. Maybe not the best location to check level, but it was the easiest.
Although the leaking furnace may be leaning A LITTLE, it's certainly not leaning any more than it's twin:
Furnace 1
Furnace 2
In case you couldn't tell, Furnace 1 is the one that's leaking.
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Well, although I ordered the collection box gasket (GKT02606) Tuesday evening and paid almost $30 to overnight the $45 part, it didn’t arrive today as FedEx indicated it would. All day it was showing “Your item will arrive today by 8pm” and only around 9pm did they update the delivery to “your item will arrive tomorrow by 8pm” like they were announcing the birth of Christ.
Service scheduled for 8am tomorrow. I’m supposed to leave for a trip 5am Saturday. No gasket. Awesome.
I’m hoping the service tech can order it from the Trane location near me and I can go pick it up. I called them yesterday and they refused to talk with me since I’m not a tech. I understand they don’t want novice homeowners doing some work for safety reasons, but I couldn’t even get them to tell me if they had the part or not.
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noted, don't buy trane…
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No manufactures will talk directly with the end user.
Liability issue!
Why didn't you let the service provider get the part and mark it up. It would be fixed by now.
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pecmsg - I would have been happy to pay the markup. The service provider had called me and said ir would be "at least a week" because they couldn't locate the part. I surfed the web, found it, and ordered it. I called them back and they then scheduled the service.
All - the gasket arrived around 130, and the service tech was here by 2. That's where the good news ends.
The inducer, receptacle and plates covering the area were removed, though not enough to tell us exactly what is happening.
For orientation, the inducer and receptacle are mounted on the right, the drain hose on the left.
What we can see is that the condensate is running to the right, not the left. In a very short time the condensate is gone (having leaked out), but not a drop has come out of the drain hose. Please reference the photo below. Even though the furnace pitch (slightly elevated on the left) is resulting in the condensate running the wrong way, the fact that it quickly "leaks out" tells me that the part isn't water tight.
This photo shows the location that the inducer receptacle connects to. The drain hose is 12-18" to the left. I am unsure of what to call this black plastic piece… is this the "collection box"? If yes, 1 of 2 things are happening:
- The black plastic "collection box" is cracked (although no cracks can be seen, but there's limited visibility); or
- The seal/gasket is not properly sealing the unit.
It doesn't show in the photo, but the black plastic piece is at least two separate pieces, a back part and a front part that have a white gasket/seal between the two.
The tech said he would investigate further, but if I could identify the black plastic part and/or the gasket material he would further disassemble the furnace to access and replace the part.
Can someone help me understand what I'm looking at, and if what's described makes sense and how I might source the part(s) I need?
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I spent a couple of hours searching for this part. As best I can tell what I need is the "recoup assembly" which is shown as part #37 on page 3 attached.
I will speak with the service provider tomorrow (or if I can't reach them, Monday) to see if they concur.
I don't see the part (COI00054) anywhere. Supply House and everywhere else I look shows it's discontinued by the manufacturer. Appreciate thoughts on whether you think I have it correct, and any suggestions on where I might source the part:
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37 on that drawing is the secondary heat exchanger.
what is the warranty on the hx?
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Yes, I believe it's the entire secondary heat exchanger. I do not think that plastic piece you are seeing is replaceable by itself. The whole secondary heat exchanger would need to be replaced… Which is what I previously said happens 1 outta 10 times.
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I agree that it’s the secondary heat exchanger. Everywhere I look it says “discontinued”. I’ll ask the service provider to call Trane (and also ask about warranty), but if you needed one where would you look? I am located in NY if it matters.
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Oh, also, and ide if there’s a chance it can be repaired? JB weld or some type of high temp epoxy?
Of course I have no idea at this point if it leaking from the black plastic or if it’s one of the coils. I do know when I pulled the blower and looked up at the coils I didn’t see anything. Car radiators can be repaired… maybe a HEx can also?
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Trane distributor is only place it would be found. A contractor would have to handle that.
And I don't think that any epoxy or jb weld would work.
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I think the big thing for you is the age of the furnace. If you have to replace the secondary heat exchanger I would just get a new furnace. The primary and secondary heat exchanger has to pull out of the furnace jacket together. They are connected together on the back side as that is the path for the flue gases to enter the secondary heat exchanger. There is also a chance that the primary could be compromised. you don't know until you remove it. If that happens you now have just spent on disassembling a unit that is bad. The warranty does help save some money but the rest of the furnace is might be old. so far how much time does the tech have on the job.
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