#2 fuel oil quality
Good morning guys, I hope your not buried in what looks like 2" of snow like I am. I do have a question though regarding #2 fuel oil. Keep in mind that I do almost 100% gas but there was a time long ago that I did get my oil burner license and started to play with burners.
One of my younger techs who came from a oil burner service company stated that there is no difference in the quality of the fuel and that its always coming from the same source. Yet when I read here some say the quality might be bad and that is causing the burner problems.
Can anybody say with clarity if oil from different suppliers are of different quality? I know we have a lot of oil guys here.
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When i was out in service, Irving customers had the worst looking filters strainers and nozzles. Always almost black looking. Irving ships their own oil direct to their own bulk plants from their own refinery. All other local dealers get their oil from the racks in Albany in one way or another. Those customers had nice pink filters and clean strainers. So, I definitely saw a difference in oil from various suppliers.
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In 1968ish the F P Young company started adding a chemical they purchased from a company in New England called APC 30. It was one part of a program they purchased from Henry Blanchard, or a company Henry worked for or operated that promoted clean burning oil heat. I remember that Henry preached that oil can burn clean (even before Flame Retention oil burners) and you needed to start with clean oil in the tank. The APC 30 was a magical chemical that cleaned the tank just by delivering it to the tank in each oil fill up. That is how I remember it. I also remember that you could do an oil burner tune up and vacuum cleaning in a white work shirt. Well that may not have been the best idea but it worked on all the regular customers. (Not so much on customers from other oil suppliers that switched to FP Young).
So some fuel has additives based on where you purchase the fuel. I remember driving the oil truck and when I needed to load at a different bulk plant I would need to add a one gallon container (in reusable metal cans) of APC 30 to the truck before filling up the truck.
There was one down side to this. For the first two years we could expect an increase in very dirty oil filters and an occasional plugged nozzle as the chemical scrubbed the dirt from the homeowner's oil tank. That was before I started burner service work. By the time 1975 rolled around, all the FP Young co. customers' fuel tanks were so clean that plugged filters, strainers, and nozzles were a thing of the past.
My friend and oil company owner from Cape May always sold fuel from Atlantic Richfield, then it became ARCO. That fuel had a good quality additive and when Atlantic stopped selling to him directly and he purchased form the open market, He was able to use the additive to keep his customers fuel quality up the the standards his grandfather sold for over 50 years.
When he purchased a competitor;s fuel deliver business he found that their customers tanks were so dirty that they had a policy of calling most of the automatic delivery accounts to ask them to shut off the burner switch because the delivery would always stir up the sludge and cause a no heat call for the next day from a plugged filter or nozzle.
They also had a policy of lifting top feed fuel lines a few inches higher from the bottom to avoid the tank bottom sludge. This plays havoc with automatic delivery accounts with 275 gallon fuel tanks that run empty with 7” of fuel still in the bottom. According to the degree day calculation there was still enough in the tank for a delivery that was scheduled for tomorrow. The started to tell the degree day calculator that the tanks were 225 gallon capacity in order to prevent “out of oil” emergency deliveries. I needed to carry 10 gallons of fuel oil on my service truck for that reason.
There I go rambling on about old times.
I guess I could have just said YES there is a difference, but it all comes from the same place. What you add to the fuel makes the difference. … but that would just be boring
Mr. Ed
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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In most location for instance in Springfield, MA where I am the oil comes to Springfield on a pipeline from New Haven, Ct.
All the dealers pick it up at one of 3 or 4 loading racks in the city. All the oil is the same regardless of which rack it comes from.
In this day and age I think oil treatment is a good idea.
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I've seen comments that certain biofuels blends are causing issues, dissolving old sludge or something?
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
So it's safe to say that if the oil guys are referring to poor oil quality as an issue with the system it must start at the point of delivery, the oil tank? because I have seen some techs mention poor oil quality.
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Are they referring to before delivery or home tank storage?
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judging by the comments, the home tank. Unless your telling me the truck tanks are an issue. that's why I'm asking
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ISTR fuel quality was one reason burner makers started using higher pump pressures. The higher pressure produces smaller oil droplets, which burn cleaner since more of the oil's surface is exposed to the air.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
@Steamhead I know that. what I'm trying to say is if the issue with your burner is oil quality but yet everybody is buying oil basically from the same source then where are we losing the oil quality?
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We got 2 new 275 gallon Granby tanks in 2019, to replace similar old tanks that had a date stamp that said they were from 1960, so about 60 years old, if I recall. I've been here almost 20 years now, and I started using FFPF 4-in-1 Heating Oil Treatment (HOT) regularly about 10 years ago. I think we did have one time where the filter or nozzle clogged and the boiler wouldn't run. Probably like @EdTheHeaterMan said, the HOT started breaking down the sludge and after a few years it gunked things up enough that the oil stopped flowing. I didn't get a peek inside the old tanks when they were removed a few years later, but I would have been curious to see what the insides looked like.
Now that we have new tanks, I use HOT religiously to prevent future sludging. There are a number of different additives on the market, and I was curious to compare ingredients to find which is "best." HOT seems to be the most expensive, and from my limited research, I think it's because it has a high percentage (30%-60%) of dipropylene glycol methyl ether (DPGME), which apparently is a 100% water-soluble solvent used in a wide variety of water-containing emulsions like latex coatings and cleaning agents. Presumably that's what makes HOt so good at removing water. HOT is significantly more expensive than other treatments that don't contain DPGME and seem to be mainly petroleum derivatives and which may not be as effective at removing water (I don't really know). But I'm willing to spend the few extra bucks for HOT on the theory that the DPGME is the magic ingredient, and I've seen posts by some pros here at HH who use and recommend it.
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If we are looking at oil quality then it's more often coming from the personal tank storage where the so called quality might be compromised. This is just one reason why its a good idea to work with an oil delivery company that also services there customers heating systems.
To my knowledge there is no epidemic of poor quality #2 fuel oil being delivered to homes. Oil more often becomes an issue when it is sitting in a home owners oil tank.
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@pedmec even here in Romania there are problems with heating oil quality.
Either from supplier ( questionable ) or the tanker that delivers it...
I never had the patience to find out(constant nozzle problems in a Riello G5RK...
Switched to natural gas plus hard wood.
Happier than ever.
But the storage tank is also a problem.
Too much humidity/water in it and you'll get problems with rust and degraded fuel...
Skip a tank cleaning and next winter you'll be constantly "in there" fixing problems...
The bio-stuff in the fuel will shorten the time fuel keeps its properties.
Expose the fuel tank to prolonged heat and you're done...
Bad to the Bone
Song by George Thorogood & The Destroyers ‧ 1982
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@jesmed1, If you say "dipropylene glycol methyl ether" three times fast, does a door open to let all the gunk out or the tank?
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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plasma torch
grinder with cutoff wheel.
Sawzall.
Jigsaw.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Fire extinguisher‽
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I remember having the fire department show up on three different jobs in the same week while I was on a service call. The first one I called them when a customer called me for a Smoke and Odors service call on their oil burner. You know what that smells like…. When I arrived I smelled cedar burning. Not a common oil burner smoke or odor. Turns out the customer has a dry base spare boiler in his garage. When his wet base boiler failed I installed the dry base boiler without the benefit of the instruction manual. “Not To Be Installed On Combustible Floor” was on the rating plate in the fine print under clearances to combustibles section.
So I called the FD as soon as I smelled that odor from the floor under the boiler. I asked for the IR camera to look at the floor under the boiler. YEP it was hot and smoldering.
The fire fighters lifted the boiler after I cut the pipes and they cut the floor open to extinguish the smoldering cedar floor and floor joist. That was #1
The next day I answered a call from the Sister of St Joseph summer home in Cape May Point. The combustion chamber was saturated so I took the proper precautions and burned off the small saturation of the combustion chamber which let a plume of black smoke out the chimney. A concerned neighbor called the FD and by the time the fire chief arrived I had the burner operating properly with no smoke.
To make matters worse, the fire chief was also the oil company owner that happen to carry 10 gallons of #2 oil in containers in his truck in case one of his customers called without heat as a result of being out of oil. When he exited his truck he radioed into the central dispatcher that he was at the scene and there was a strong fuel odor on site.
By the time he came around the back of the building with the adrenaline rush to prepare for a tragedy, only to see me adjusting the oil burner in the boiler room, he was able to tell the incoming trucks to stand down. There was no emergency and to be careful driving to the scene. That was #2
The third one happened at the end of the week when I told another customer in the same town that they had a saturation on their hands and this one had the possibility of being a real problem. I called the business line of the fire chief’s oil company and asked if this was his customer, since I have never been there before. The Chief’s wife indicated that the customer was not theirs. I then called the chief’s cell phone and asked for a pump truck with fire extinguishers on hand to be on site before I tried to light off this saturation. He arrived with two trucks and the rest of the volunteers were starting to joke with me about how many times T was going to need them next week…
I then removed the brick combustion chamber from the furnace and placed it in the parking lot and lit it off with a blow torch. It burned for 3 hours while I attended to the cleanup of the oil in the heat exchanger and the basement floor. I was a one man operation at the time so I had no other qualified people to watch the chamber while I was in the basement. After 3 bags of oil-dry on the floor and in the heat exchanger was removed from the basement the heater was ready for reassembly. With the fire proof cloves the two piece brick chamber was placed back in the HX and the furnace reassembled and the customer had heat within 6 hours of the service call.
Not cheap, but Safety First.
I joked that the customer only hit the reset once!
What are the odds of needing the FD three times in one week?
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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So then the gunk in the bottom of old tanks is the tank itself dissolving? If the oil is not delivered with sludge?
Thinking about indoor tanks that are not prone to condenstaion.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0
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