Time/Cost of Circulator Pump
Hi,
I know I am not supposed to put prices on here but trying to figure out if the price seem right so I hope a total number is ok. I recently had a vendor come to my house because my boiler was making a loud noise. It was a bad circulator pump and granted it was hard to get to so it took longer but the price seems really high. The next day, some the radiators were not heating up when they were heating fine before so I called them back and that was more hundreds of dollars. They said I had a leaking valve but I am thinking that should have been caught the day before and/or questioning if he did something such as add too much water to the system to cause the leak. The total came to $$$$. Is that reasonable? Below is what he did. Side note, when he was the first day, he complained that the first 2 pumps were defective so he had to keep putting new ones in and drive back to office to get another one but it is hard to figure out if he charged me for that time. I am scheduling call with the owner about this but wanted to get opinions before that call to see if it seems high or not. Thank you!
Comments
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Hard to judge from here what went on. I will say that when a circulator is changed and you then have no heat in areas, this could have been the cause of the no heat and the system would need to be purged of air. This may not have been done after the circulator was changed. Hot water heating systems heat with water, not air, so you may have a legitimate complaint.
As far as pricing goes, don't post prices, even if you're not sure if the rules apply.
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That price of over $1,000 might be fair, but it depends on your location. The New York metropolitan area demands much higher labor costs, and wholesale parts often cost more from a New York supply house with higher overhead. In contrast, a small town in Wyoming typically has much lower labor rates. For that reason, it would be better to replace that dollar amount with “$$$” or something similar.
When I was in business, I had a policy called “You Never Pay Twice.” That policy covered the second minimum labor charge, which was typically a 0.5-hour fee just to show up. Since the leaking relief valve was probably a few years old and had never been exercised or “operated” as instructed by the manufacturer, it may have already been defective. That means the next person who touched it—whether it was you, the cable guy, or the plumber—was likely to cause it to leak. For that reason, I agree that you should pay for that repair.
However, because the leaking valve was discovered after the system was improperly vented and some of the radiators were not heating properly, I would have deducted more from that repair under my service-call warranty.
For example: if I replaced your circulator for $10.00 and you later called about uneven heat, and I normally charge $6.00 to correct uneven heat and replace a relief valve, I would show the combined total as $16.00. I would then offer a $3.00 discount under the warranty portion of my “You Never Pay Twice” policy.
You would need to agree to the initial $10.00 before I started the working on your circulator, and to the additional $3.00 before I replaced the relief valve the next service call. All pricing would be agreed upon up front. If you declined the $10.00 repair on the first day, then all you would owe is the minimum service fee to show up, diagnose the problem, and provide a written price quote which might have been $0.98
Of course these prices are from the early 1800s before circulators were invented, but you get the point. I cant tell your contractor how to run his business, and that is why I no longer recommend the company that I sold my business to. They are more interested in how much they can charge and less on actual customer service. They would rather replace a perfectly good oil heating system with a Natural gas or Propane system then to actually do the proper maintenance on an oil heater.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I might start with a query about if they have any guarantee on the work they do on a service call.
Call from another phone (caller ID and all) and ask the question anonymously as if you want to use then for a needed repair.Then ask about what the statement "All Good At This Time" means on a service call ticket/invoice
Seems like "All was not good" since the following day the system did not heat properly and it did heat properly several days earlier, my guess is that opening the piping system caused air to enter the radiators. There is a statement: Filled Boiler (which means adding water) as part of what you paid for on the first day. and since you already paid for that (adding water) why do you need to pay for that again on the second day. Just because they changed the name to Bleed Radiators which also is adding water to the boiler.
I can guarantee that the air in the radiators was a result of the "Taco 007 circulator pump" job. That bleed radiators should have been done the first day and if they wanted to charge additional for that on the first day, then it should have been included. I think that they are not the type of company that admits their mistakes and would rather loose a customer than refund you any money.
Asking management the tough questions may get you a few dollars refund, and if not find another plumber.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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But that makes an assumption that all those things were done. And if they were done then the second service call would be unnecessary. Can't make any money if you don't get callbacks that you can charge more money for.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I would ask is:
What is a circulator pump kit??
I would tell the owner the tech did not bleed the radiators that's why you had the second call……..unless you saw him bleed the rads the first time…..but regardless there was now need for a repeat call
Tested system all good is just a CYA cover story
Why did he change a gas ball valve and a relief valve which had nothing to do with the original call? And did he actually replace them? Pictures
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I’d keep an eye on the boiler pressure also. A weeping relief is often caused by pressure over 27 psi.
Pressure increase can happen when a fill valve that hasn’t been used in a while is activated to do a purge, after a repair.
Hopefully the expansion tank was checked also.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream2 -
True, but not true. Or there should be no excuse for it to be true. Most of the civilized world has gone paperless. All the young kids I work with take pics of everything and load them into the iPad for that account. Most of our clients aren't even on site when work is done, so evidence is key. Mistakes are made of course, but mistakes should be owned.
In defense of the tech. We don’t know the system. The OP mentioned the tech not having the right circulator and having to go get one. Is it a monoflo system and he wasn't aware radiators needed to be bled? That's just one more thing we infuse into the young'uns. If you're not sure, make a phone call.
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A thorough repair would have changed the circulator as needed purged all zones and done a complete check of all devices. This was not done. Service companies need to do this for customer satisfaction not to mention the dreaded call backs that occur when a service call such as this one was not thoroughly done. It avoids all of the finger pointing.
I hate call backs and do everything that I can to make sure I don't go back.
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While the second call could have been avoided if he'd done his job properly on the first call, it's hard to say what that time would have been. That 1/2 hour for the second call should definitely be thrown out, and there are some questionable items on there as well like the valves that were supposedly replaced. Were they actually replaced? Were they actually defective? If yes, why weren't they done the day before? Did you approve those replacements, seeing as they have zero relevance to the call? WTH is a "circulator pump kit" and why was it necessary? 3.5 hours to diagnose and replace a circ, replacement of a relief valve, adding a sweat purge valve, purging/bleeding, verification of tank pressure and proper operation really isn't obscene at all. They seem to have marked up the material pretty significantly, but the labor looks about right.
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We've removed the pricing number, as it was against site rules. Thank you.
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