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Main Vent ? Replacement?

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ups1dez
ups1dez Member Posts: 7
in Strictly Steam

While insulating some main pipe in my crawl space, I noticed what appears to be a main vent tucked away in a back corner. This part of the house was an addition in the 70s, and I am assuming hasn’t been touched since. This part of the house heats up much later than the original part and I am assuming it is related to this probably broken vent. I am a little concerned about some of the condition of the fittings. So I guess I have two questions, what should I replace this with and should I be worried about the surrounding plumbing? There seems to be a small crack on the fitting

IMG_0063.jpeg

and yes, I moved the romex and properly attached it.

Comments

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 8,365

    I'd replace it with a Gorton #1 (from supplyhouse.com) or possibly a Gorton #2 if the main is very long, but the Gorton #1 can provide sufficient venting for quite a lot of main pipe (since the steam doesn't travel very fast in a main, especially an uninsulated one like you have. The steam has to heat the main as it moves along so that slows it greatly)

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    tcassano87ups1dez
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,545

    I would be very careful. There does seem to be a crack. You certainly don't want to make that worse. The current main vent, is/was pretty close to useless. Way undersized

    ups1dez
  • ups1dez
    ups1dez Member Posts: 7

    Yeah, my concern is if I remove it, I may make it worse if/when it breaks. Probably best to call in a professional?

  • ups1dez
    ups1dez Member Posts: 7

    Thanks Paul, they are insulated now, but I took this during the process!

    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 8,365
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1883104#Comment_1883104

    A professional can break a fitting too, shrug

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • ups1dez
    ups1dez Member Posts: 7
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1883106#Comment_1883106

    Lol, yeah, fair enough. I just don't think I have the skills/knowledge to fix this if something were to go wrong…

    ethicalpaul
  • Captain Who
    Captain Who Member Posts: 563
    edited January 20

    That Tee sure looks old for a 50 yr old fitting. I'd suspect whoever did the work put in a pre cracked one.

    I can't say for sure without a better and closer up picture of the crack but it probably didn't happen from installing the vent and probably wouldn't be made worse by removal.

    Check it and the vent with a mirror when there is steam to see if the mirror fogs up at all, to see if that crack or vent is leaking steam. Probably more likely the vent is plugged. You can repair crack with high heat epoxy putty put on thickly. Replacement could be tough if you don't have movement capability at either end. That would mean cutting the pipe and threading it and putting in a union (shoehorned in) with a nipple and a new Tee, or someone who can do a Mega Press Steam coupling with no stop.

    Edit to add - I repaired my car exhaust, heck, probably almost 2 years ago now, with JB Weld Hi Heat Epoxy Putty and I also worked some pieces of aluminum window screening into it. I'm amazed that it still hasn't leaked.

  • ups1dez
    ups1dez Member Posts: 7
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1883113#Comment_1883113

    I like this idea, however, I do not like the idea of crawling back there multiple times 🤣.

    I think I'll pick up some JB Weld epoxy putty and a Gorton #1 (that looks like a 3/8"?) and give it a whirl. Maybe wait until this cold streak gives a break…

    Captain Who
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 3,684

    Before you condemn the T as cracked inspect it better I don't see any evidence it is leaking. Is the crack just a shadow from the light source when taking the picture ?

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
    ethicalpaulCLamb
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 8,365
    edited January 20

    Gorton #1 has a combination 1/2" and 3/4" fitting just like your existing vent

    Gorton #2 inexplicably has only a 1/2" male on it

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • ups1dez
    ups1dez Member Posts: 7

    So then looks like this is the one I should order? TIA!

    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Gorton-G14-Gorton-No-1-3-4-x-1-2-Air-Eliminator-Main-Vent-Valve-3522000-p?srsltid=AfmBOooAdIeQA8HQCY7aYEBTTGjiOKiRQyEtP5MSBxujhqA_uYRtx0Q_

  • Captain Who
    Captain Who Member Posts: 563
    edited January 20

    You didn't say what the volume of main is, that it is trying to vent. Why isn't it at the end of the main? How much further to the end?

    You may need 2 or 3 of those.

    Edit to add - It is totally a matter of balance and we have no information about your overall steam piping.

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,996

    I've never figured out that Gorton quirk. However, the Gorton #2 is the bigger of the two vents — and I'd use it, even if it meant using a bushing.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 8,365
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1883150#Comment_1883150

    Yes that's the one I'd start with unless your main is 2.5" or larger or longer than, I don't know, 50 feet or so

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 19,881

    Sure looks like a crack. I wouldn't touch it unless your prepared to fix it.

    Mad Dog_2
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,551

    O'd leave it till the end of the heating season in case something bad happens. How close is that wood strut, you may need a couple of elbows and a nipples to make room to swing a Gorton #1 you do it yourself a little heat might help. If you use a torch have some water handy.

    Bob

    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    Mad Dog_2
  • RTW
    RTW Member Posts: 276

    The main vent in posters photo looks like its in middle, not end, of main as recommended - just an observation. I added main vents on my one pipe steam a about 8 - 12 inches from the end of the main by drilling/tapping pipe and putting vents on an antler - as recommended on this site with excellent results that improved steam getting to furthest radiator quickly

    Maybe another photo showing distance of vent to end of main would clarify my concern

    Regards

    RTW

  • Captain Who
    Captain Who Member Posts: 563
    edited January 21
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1883137#Comment_1883137

    I'd do the wire brushing/alcohol rag cleaning/epoxying prior to trying to removing that existing vent. I'd do the aluminum window screen reinforcement in the epoxy too but I'm OCD lol. Let it cure a day. Then go back in there and try to remove the vent leaving that nipple in place by putting hold back wrench on nipple and other wrench on the vent. Unless I'm mistaken, the vent you are planning to purchase should go right on the end of the short nipple just like the existing one.

    Keep in mind that, as myself and RTW have stated, this might not even be in the correct location for a main vent, in order to get steam to go to the last radiator and all radiators the main is serving. And a single Gorton #1 may or may not be enough to balance your system.

  • JaymeHart
    JaymeHart Member Posts: 60

    could he just cut off the vent above that vent's top thread, then screw a coupling onto that? that way, he wouldnt need to mess with the crack at all

  • ups1dez
    ups1dez Member Posts: 7
    edited January 23

    thanks for all of the help and comments. I was able to get back under there last night and confirmed there is no crack. It is just the lighting from the flash of my camera, so that is good news.

    The vent is predictably on there pretty good. I wasn’t able to remove it so I’ll likely need to use some PB blaster or similar.

    As far as the location and length of main, this is 1 1/4” size pipe that is around 50 ft. As multiple people pointed out, it is not at the end of the main for this portion of the house. I have two Gorton 2s on other branches. I have never tapped a pipe before and given its location, I am a bit weary for this to be my first attempt. Thanks again for everyone’s help!

    I will also add that this main only has 4 radiators on it and they all do heat up fully. Just a tad bit slower than the rest of the house.

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 8,365
    edited January 23

    IMO forget the PBBlaster. You could try heat, but given the close proximity of dry wood, I would recommend you show that 1/2” nipple who’s boss with a bigger wrench and/or a cheater.

    A 12” pipe wrench or crescent isn’t gonna cut it

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • Captain Who
    Captain Who Member Posts: 563

    I was going to ask what tools did you use and method? If you use a propane torch makes sure you have a large piece of aluminum flashing wrapped around it to protect the wood. I'd have a small fire extinguisher too or at least a spray bottle of water as someone else suggested. Penetrating oil was useless for me when I replaced a 16 ft steam main. You "might" get some assistance from it here but it takes time and you need to tap on it with a small brass hammer or the like to create some vibration too. I'd just use the torch if you don't have a cheater pipe and/or proper tools.

  • RTW
    RTW Member Posts: 276

    from original poster:

    "I will also add that this main only has 4 radiators on it and they all do heat up fully. Just a tad bit slower than the rest of the house."

    It may be best to leave well enough alone. Vent in wrong place and unlikely to work if replaced, And, messing with it could create another issue you do not have now. If dead set to do something, best to get a pipefitter/plumber to tap a main vent in correct location.

    Regards,

    Bob

  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 3,684

    OK that main is about 50 foot long. How close to the end of the main is that vent ?

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • 4GenPlumber
    4GenPlumber Member Posts: 16

    Replacing the vent, even if its wrong location isnt gonna hurt anything. The nip they used is galvanized (looks like) and the dope they used is expando. Torch and bigger wrench, at least an 18" to break expando. At 50 ft in only 1 1/4, I would use a #2 vent.

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