Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
If our community has helped you, please consider making a contribution to support this website. Thanks!

Relay box hooked into another relay box?

Options

Good evening, just thought maybe someone could help us out here, we are adding in floor heat (staple up) to old system, the guy before us put the supply and return in the slab about 50 ft away with a pump hooked into a relay box simple right? Now the homeowner wants two zones, the entrance with radiators, and staple up in basement, was planning on using two zone valves two thermostats one relay box then somehow hook this relay box to the old one, any better ideas?

Comments

  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 2,471

    Get rid of the old relay box, you don't need it or the zone circulator if you're going to zone valves.

  • AnthemPlumbing
    AnthemPlumbing Member Posts: 10
    edited January 5

    well there's 3 other pumps hooked into the old relay box, i also thought about moving the circulator to the basement then i could hook it into the new relay box with the zone valves. why don't i need the zone circulator?

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 7,267

    If the existing zone panel (relay box) uses XX to the boiler aquastat, then the new additional zone panel (relay box) will also use XX.

    You're going to have high temperature radiators and low temperature staple up radiant on the same loop? Will the radiant zone have a mixing valve? You can't really split it with zone valves unless you do injection pumping for the radiant, because the circulator for the radiant should be on the mix side.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 26,744

    the current system is radiant? Or?

    The additional system will be the same temperature or mixed down temperature?

    Most relay boxes have communication connections for linking more than one together you can mix and match pump relay boxes with zone valve relay boxes

    Piping and any additional pumps need to be consider, primary secondary for example

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • AnthemPlumbing
    AnthemPlumbing Member Posts: 10

    yes the current is radiant and if i know the installer right, the temp is as low as possible so was hoping to get away without mixing valve and use lower temp being that the room with radiators is very small

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 26,744

    If the current setup has 3 zone pumps connected to a zone pump relay box you will need an additional zone valve relay box to oower two zone valves and the pump for those zones

    If you have a box with communication connections connections buy the sane brand as a zone valve version

    Or the TT connection from the current and the new box could call on the boiler

    Bottom line, a new zone relay box gives you the transformer, pump switching relay, and connections for thermostats and zone valves. It is the simplest option

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,887

    Ah… you're not going to get much heat out of the new radiators if you're running radiant floor temp water through them.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    EdTheHeaterManIntplm.
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 2,471

    You said it is one zone currently. Why are there 3 zone circs? If you were indeed going from one zone (circ) to two (valves) as you said, you do not need a switching relay at all.

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 7,267

    I think he's trying to add two additional zones by tapping into the piping of one of the three existing zones. And the piping for that zone is 50 ft away somehow. Pics would be awesome.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 26,744

    Is it possible you have a system like this that was built with future expansion in mind.

    This would be a 3 pump, single zone example.

    Screenshot 2026-01-06 at 3.32.00 PM.png
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • AnthemPlumbing
    AnthemPlumbing Member Posts: 10

    I'm sorry, let me explain myself better, the existing system has 4 zones with 4 pumps all hooked into the relay box as normal, very very nice system i'll have to post some pics then, but the 4th zone goes 50 feet over under the slab into the basement with a supply and return and stops there, he had in mind for one zone in the basement (staple up) then the homeowner got me to do the staple up but also wants radiators in his 120 sq ft entrance

    The other 3 zones over in the boiler room are all radiant in the concrete

  • AnthemPlumbing
    AnthemPlumbing Member Posts: 10

    so in otherwards the 4th pump hasn't been used yet just sitting there waiting for the staple up and radiators to get hooked into it and fired up, i just have to get the pump in the boiler room to communicate with the zone valves over in the basement

  • AnthemPlumbing
    AnthemPlumbing Member Posts: 10
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 11,639

    So there is a combi Mod-Con boiler that does both heat and DHW. It is currently operating with a low temperature for radiant floor space heating on 3 for 4 zones. The hottest water for space heating won't get much over 125°F. If the outdoor sensor is connected that temperature will ramp down to as low as 95° on milder days. You want to add a radiant floor zone the the unused circulator that is already piped in and connected to the boiler.

    If that was the end of the story, then you have no problem.  There may be a little overheating as a result of the two different radiant floors… Staple up and concrete slab, but that is nothing compared to your additional zone requirements.  

    In order to add a standing radiator, a panel radiator or a baseboard radiator or convector radiator to that system you will need a really big one if you don't get the water temperature up to 160° or more.  That means that you will need to have some sort of mixing valve or injection pump system to make 160° water that leaves the boiler down to the 125° or lower. You need the lower temperature for the system as it is operating now because that works.   Look at the water temperature output for simple baseboard radiators when you have only 120° water compared to the recommended 180° water temperature.   You will need at least 30 feet of radiator to do what 10 feet of radiator will do at 180° if you use the low temperature water.  Slant Fin Base/Line 2000

    Screenshot 2026-01-06 at 10.15.53 PM.png

    You need to rethink this idea, or get a really big radiator for the really small space.  

    I had a customer request the same thing from me.  “Just connect this cast iron radiator in the shop to the radiant heat system you are installing so I can get some heat in there in the winter."   After telling him it won’t work multiple times, and trying to convince him, the additional $$$ for that project would be wasted money, I ended up doing it because that is what he wanted… and the customer is always right.   He called me after the first year and told me I was right.  Sometimes you need to tell them ten times and when they insist and you do it for them, and  get paid for it, you just have to wait for the phone call telling you that you were right. 

    Everyone is an expert when it comes to their house. They know best until proven wrong (and paying $$$ for it).

    Good luck with this project.

    I can do the wiring diagram for you if they insist.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 11,639

    This diagram assumes that the #5 zone in the circulator control panel is the unused circulator zone. (This is the 4 zone setup in the Caleffi instruction manual)

    Screenshot 2026-01-06 at 10.52.22 PM.png

    The two zone valve zones and the thermostats and controls can be placed close to the space being heated. The only wire that is needed to operate the boiler for those two zone valve zones is the orange wires from X X on the ZVC-3 to the Zone thermostat on zone #5 (or whatever zone has the unused pump connected to it) terminals W and R. The C terminal is not used. The circulator pumps and other boiler functions will work as usual with this simple thermostat wire connection.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 26,744
    edited January 7

    Is the radiator addition to supplement the staple up at the entry? If so a cast radiator will give off some heat at radiant SWT

    That is some nice work in the mechanical room.

    Very professional to see an actual balance valve on a recirc system, BFD with an actual vent tube. Good taste in hydronic components 😄

    You could also master and slave the relay boxes with the communication connections.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 2,471

    Add a ZVC to run the zone valves and run the end switch wires from it to R&W in the existing switching relay. A call for heat from either new zone would tell the respective circ to come on via end switch, which would then tell the boiler to come on.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 26,744
    edited January 7

    If you pair two relay boxes together I would suggest using the COM connections. A 3 conductor thermostat wire between them. With Caleffi you can "daisy chain" an unlimited amount of relay boxes this way, of any variation ZVR (zone valve) or ZSR (zone pump)

    The advantage to this is you dont tie up a relay, assuming you have a spare. A spare is always nice to have should one relay ever fail, especially with the soldered on relays.

    But also by making the first box "master" any slave added to the first box will reconize priority on box 1.

    An indirect or any load on relay 1, with priority triggered on, all loads on the slaves, valves or pumps, will turn off until priority is satisfied. Or the priority could be toggled off via the dip switch.

    Priority relay is always relay number 1 in Caleffi boxes.

    This also shows the 40Va transformer in the pump relay box, and it is protected by a self resetting fuse, the yellow disc next to the molex plug.

    These features and functions are a result of contractor input when we first designed these relay boxes.

    The snap in 40 Va in the zone pump relays was added by installer requests also. Two transformers can be installed for a total of 80Va across all connections on the ZVR zone valve relays. This can be helpfulmif you want to put multiple thermal actuators on one zone connection.

    The 6 zone box comes with two relays. Theses are standard foot mount type transformers with molex plugs.

    Screenshot 2026-01-07 at 10.32.42 AM.png
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • AnthemPlumbing
    AnthemPlumbing Member Posts: 10

    Hey thank you much for all that info, I'm going to have to use your wiring for this Ed because i don't want to move the pump to the basement and cant put the zone valves in the boiler room so that diagram is perfect, and about the radiators, they are panel radiators 2 of them with a total of 14,243 btu's with 180 degree water, and its 120 sq ft so i came up with 5000 btu's needed? so i hooked them up real quick yesterday so they can run while we install the joist track plates and it did pretty good, but we where only there for an hour so couldn't see how good its working, (that's with 130 degree water btw)