best glycol and mix for my boiler system?
I screwed up and had a failed expansion tank that was causing my PRV to leak. I allowed about 20 gallons to leak out over the past month. As a result, I diluted my glycol and it needs to be replaced. Cryotek 100 was recommended to me. Is this like a car where the mix will be 50%. How do I figure out how much I will need? I would consider doing the job myself if there are good videos on how to do it. Any help with this process or product is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Comments
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A few suggestions:
You do not want to blend different brands as they use different inhibitors that may not get along.
My process would be to squirt in a cleaner and run that for a day to get the system to a good starting point for new glycol. Flush it out well.
This system cleaner comes in a squirt can, screw it onto a purge or drain valve, hose thread, open valve, and pull trigger. Be sure it is tightly connected as the can empties in seconds!
Choose a glycol brand and the %. Most brands have info on the container for protection. Generally 30- 35% is adequate, but decide on the lowest temperature you want protection to.
This Fernox Alphi 11 at 35% will flow down to, -11°F burst at -40°F
You will need some way to pump it into the system and purge air out. A 5 gallon bucket or plastic garbage can allows you to pump out, and purge back int the bucket until you do not see or hear air bubbles. This can take some time depending on the piping, zones and amount of fluid.
Simple and inexpensive is a 5 gallon bucket with a small submersible type pump from the Home Stores, 1/2hp is plenty.
Or find pool or spa pump on Marketplace and build a system like this.
Some hydronic wholesalers have pump carts to rent or loan, that makes it a simple, safe job.
I would buy pre-mixed glycol and use it right out of the bucket. Then you have the correct blend.
You do not want a fill system connected that could add water and dilute the mix, as you have learned.
Some choose to add a glycol fill tank to add fluid as air bleeds out.
Glycol is very slow to give up entrained air, it may take days for a good air purger to get the system 100% air free. You will need to boost pressure up to 12 psi a few times as air slowly comes
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
That is a very helpful post. Thank you. I am considering doing this job myself and will certainly have additional questions.
Cryo Tek 100 was the product that was suggested by a local boiler guy. I am fine with idea of buying concentrate and then simply mixing it with distilled water. My understanding is that will be a little more cost effective. The guy had suggested mixing it at 50%. I live in NY and rarely we get temps down to zero or subzero. There are plenty of single digit nights. But, according to the charts, 50% mix might be a little over kill. Aside from cost, are there additional negatives to higher concentration?
Everybody that hears I have glycol in the system tells me how bad the glycol is for all my system parts, but they know I have no choice as I have an air handler and coil in an unheated attic.
My brother is going to help me calculate how much we might need. I believe we need to calculate the linear feet of pipe. Then we have to figure out how much the boiler and 2 coils hold. One guy thought I might need 20 gallons of concentrate, so 40 gallons of total mix. That just sounds like a lot to me.
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@clydesdale in simple terms, antifreeze reduces the heat output. For example, you may get away with 150 degree water and heat your home on the coldest night. Add thirty percent glycol mix and you might need 170 degrees.. Add fifty percent glycol mix and you might need 190 degrees.
In addition the fluid does not flow as well when antifreeze is added. You may need a slightly larger circulator.
For these reasons and cost you don't want to use more glycol/antifreeze than you actually need. One method to determine the capacity of a relatively small system is to fill the system with water and vent all of the air out. Then drain the system into empty five gallon buckets.
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Will this product work the same as F3? Supplyhouse is where I often order from. Thank you.
X800RD - Sentinel X800RD - Sentinel X800 Fast Acting Cleaner Rapid-Dose
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How do you introduce the cleaners that don't screw onto a drain and get shot in?
Also, I don't think I am going to go with the auto feed system this time. But, I would love to know more about them. At this moment, I need to simply make the system safe from freezing and enjoy the holidays. I can then research this another time and when I replace my attic air handler in the next couple of years, I will then consider this upgrade? What is the need for this expensive device if the house has been fine without it for 27 years? Thanks.
Just a crazy thought. Could I drain the upstairs heating system in the unconditioned attic while I am away for 2 weeks in the winter and not put glycol in the system? Just simply drain that loop? I realize I would not have heat in that loop, but wouldn't that make it safe or am I totally off base? Thanks.
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@clydesdale I live in MA where our design temp is 0 deg. We occasionally see-5—10 maybe 2-3 timeas a winter. We used 30% glycol with water and never froze anything up. Even equipment that was outdoors. Two much is harder to pump and slows heat transfer. Freezing point and bursting point is two different things. It may get slushy thats about it
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you could drain the part of the system prone to freeze. You would need two valves to isolate that section then repressurize the balance of the system. to keep it going
Any brand of cleaner will work, Fernox, Rhomar, Axiom, sentinel
If you don’t use an aerosol can you will need to pump it in.
The nice people here that do this for a living are suggesting 30-35% why would you want to go 50%?
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
I am absolutely going to listen to the nice people here. They guy I spoke with said 50% and so far his is the only guy suggesting that. Why would I want a higher concentration of the expensive stuff that beats the crap out of the system? I don't. I am also considering pumping the stuff in myself with the help of my brother and the help of you guys.😁 Thank you so much!!!
Next step is I need to calculate how much to buy. Pointers?
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Just get a 5 gal bucket straight glycol.
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I would pump in 1 gallon of glycol, then 2 of water, keep doing it that way instead of pre blending too much if you don’t know the volume
As air vents out, fill with undiluted glycol to assure you keep the %
buy a refractometer and a stick type ph meter to check where you end up.Check ph every couple years keep it in the range the manufacturer recommends, you can add a ph booster if needed
In a clean system with good fill water, 10, 15, or more years is a reasonable life
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
I hit up harbor freight for their 20% off coupon and got a 1/2 hp pump. I will make the hoses. My plan is to measure some piping and try to calculate an approximate amount and then order the glycol tonight or tomorrow. How do I determine what the boiler and 2 air handlers hold? Thank you so much for the help!!
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How about just getting a washing machine hose kit from home depot to connect the pump to boiler and then pump to one end dropped in the bucket? This kit:
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Something that is almost always overlooked when discussing Cryo-Tek 100 is the fact that it's only 55% concentration straight from the bucket. Cutting it 50/50 would put you at 27.5%, which is borderline (25%) grounds for bacterial growth. 30-35% is typical with 30% as an absolute minimum IMO, so you'd need to calculate your total system volume and then buy enough concentrate to premix that amount to your desired percentage, and then pump it in. Get yourself a refractometer to check when you're done, and you may need to make adjustments by draining some out and refilling with more concentrate as you'll never get all of the existing fluid out so it'll dilute your new stuff. 2 parts Cryo to 1 part water is roughly 36.5% so that's easy to premix and would likely get you pretty close.
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That is a very important piece of info. Thank you. I am trying to determine how much cryotek 100 to buy. Can someone advise and help me with the data below? Thanks!!!!!
3/4 inch piping for a modine garage heater - 172 ft
3/4 inch piping for hot water heater 24 ft
1 inch piping to basement air handler 60 ft
1 inch piping to attic air handler 75 ft
expansion tank - 2 gallons
Trianco boiler - online says it holds 5.1 gallons
Two 5 ton First co air handlers ?
one modine 40,000 hot dawg garage heater ?
Hot water heater ?
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I used an online calculator for type M pipe. My 130ft of 1 inch should hold 5.9 gallons and the 196ft of 3/4 holds 5.27. So, I think I am at about 18.5 gallons with the boiler, piping and expansion tank. I have no idea how much is in the water heater, garage heater and two 5 ton air handlers.
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196 feet of 3/4"=5.52 gallons
135 feet 1"=6.129 gallons
The air handlers are probably 1 gallon each if that.
Same for the Hot dawg
So with everything your at 23 gallons. Call it 24. I included 1 gallon for the water heater I am assuming it is an indirect coil.
If you go 2parts glycol to 1 part water like @GroundUp mentioned you would need 24 gallons x .666= 16 gallons of glycol.
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Thank you. Do you think I can get away with buying (3) 5 gallon buckets of this stuff or do I need to purchase that 4th 5 gallon bucket? Thank you so much!!!
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