1895 Detroit Home - Single Pipe Steam Unknown Condition - Initial Inspection

WillGreenlee · November 4

Hello! My friend has purchased an 1895 Victorian home in Detroit. It is currently in non-livable condition, no working central electric or plumbing. It is shockingly original, but was poorly maintained for a longgg time. It is almost completely original plaster, hardwood floors, tile bathrooms, coffered ceilings, pocket doors, etc. It is about 3000 square feet, and is three stories, all single-pipe steam heated. His focus right now is completely on water management (roof/walls/gutters/windows/etc.). But I've started to become curious about the heating system, and if it'll work at all (eventually). I was trying to make a list of some pre-checks I could do to see if it is salvageable.

I'm pretty much excluding the actual boiler and pressurtrol from this, because I'm pretty sure both need to be replaced (including near-boiler piping). I mostly want to check if the rest of the system has integrity.

I want to know if the system can hold pressure, if the mains are slopped correctly, and if there are any other major setup issues that will prevent the system from being salvageable.

First on my list was to get a level, and start checking the entire basement as to if all the mains are slopped correctly away from the boiler.

Next I wanted to do some kind of pressure test to see if the system could hold any pressure. I'm sure it will have leaks, but I mostly want to know if there are any MAJOR leaks like broken pipes in walls or anything else crazy. But when I google "pressurizing steam system with air" I get a very strong DON'T DO THIS answer haha. So…looking for advice on this. I DON'T want to turn this thing on :-0

Other notes. The boiler looks like it was a Slant/Fin, and is currently full of water at least up to the top of the glass. And the pressurtrol was set to max pressure (yikes), which I think was about 6 PSI. And as you can see, the near boiler piping was brazed copper pipes, which I've read is a no no. I'll try to get better pictures in the future. The basement is a dark and unpleasant place to be right now.

mattmia2 · November 4

oh my

mattmia2 · November 4

The system is likely ok but everything about how that boiler is installed is wrong.

Mad Dog_2 · November 4

Black steel steam piping is extremely durable. The steam.mains and radiator branches, as long as they remain properly pitched may very well be salvageable. The boiler and all near boiler piping and possibly the returns could need replacement. More pictures please. My home is an 1899-1900 Victorian....Steam Heat goes well with the era. Mad Dog

Jamie Hall · November 4

I hope you can find craftsmen to repair as needed the floors and trim and plaster. Please don't rip stuff out! See if yu can find an historic preservation society — I think there is one in your area.

On the steam.

First of all, it WON'T hold pressure! Remember those radiator vents are all open to the atmosphere until steam hits them! So don't worry about pressure testing it. As @Mad Dog_2 said, pretty much everythng above the boiler is likely to salvageable — I'd go further and say probably fine, if the pitch is OK — and can be reptiched if need be. With one exception: the vents and the valves. The vents simply should be replaced as needed. The valves can almost certainly be repaired — don't think about replacements unless you absolutely have to.

Then a nice new boiler, sized to the radiation and installed by the book and you'll be good to go. But note: installed by the book and properly sized. You may have to look around some to find a heating contractor who will do that.

WillGreenlee · November 4

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1870850#Comment_1870850

Good point on the vents, sometimes I forget they're normally open.

We do have a couple well regarded boiler specialists in our area thankfully. I'm hoping he will use one of them when the time comes. We'll avoid the valve replacements, although I've gotten pretty good at it on my own steam system. It would be nice to have the valves working though because I'm guessing there will be whole sections of the house that he'll want to "shut" until there's time to attend to it. I've suggested just attempting to finish one entire floor, that alone will be a huge accomplishment.

Reg your comment on historical preservation, we are all on board! And that is the goal. I think 90% of the charm will be preserved. Even the windows are being hand-rebuilt one by one. This project will take many years.

pecmsg · November 4

the good is it appears the Asbestos has been removed. I’d request the certs showing who and when.
beyond that there’s a lot of work to be done

EBEBRATT-Ed · November 4

You can buy 1/8" pipe plugs and plug the vent openings.

Or slowly fill the whole system with water LOL.

mattmia2 · November 4

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1870866#Comment_1870866

I think i see a few pieces here and there, more likely it fell off on the floor, hopefully it was cleaned up properly.

mattmia2 · November 4

I would get a properly plumbed and working boiler in there rather early on, that way you can see if there are system problems you need to fix before you start fixing the plaster so you won't have to fix it twice if you need to get to something. You will also need heat to keep the new finish materials stable once you repair things.

Steamhead · November 4

Those look like early-production Rococo radiators, made by American Radiator Co.

The copper piping around the boiler is all wrong, as others have said.

And that beige box to the right of the second radiator is a telephone bell that can also chime.

JUGHNE · November 4

Was the boiler full of water when the new owners took over?

The basement may not have a hard freeze. The return pipes below the water line would probably be full of water. By design all the water in the system should have returned to the boiler…..in theory anyway.

You could plug all the rad vents and main vents, as said above, I would also remove the pressure control to avoid pushing junk into it, then slowly fill the system with water.

I would make sure the pipe supports are in place as the pipes will get pretty heavy. The pressure relief valve should open at 15 PSI. This might get the water up to about 30' above the boiler.

And yes that is a remote phone ringer from the old days.

You could only have a single phone in the house, a second extension was expensive and a luxury that many could not afford.

pecmsg · November 4

from the rust in the bottom of that boiler it “looks” like it was under water. If that’s the case it shot!

WillGreenlee · November 5

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1870872#Comment_1870872

There's definitely still going to be asbestos in there in some spots. The house looks like it's been almost abandoned for the last 50 years. We were shocked to find that the water heater has a 2014 date code on it. A lot of the copper pipes in the basement have split due to freezing.

WillGreenlee · November 5

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1870879#Comment_1870879

Yes it was fully of water when they got it. The boiler has not been touched by the new owner yet. For all I know, the mains could be full too. I don't know where the water stops.

Good thought on plugging the vents.

I need to make sure the mains are supported, yes.

I didn't even notice the phone box. That is one of a TON of mystery features of the house. In the basement there are large ducts and circular holes in the floors and no idea what they go to (I just see some knob and tube in there). I'm not sure if there is a laundry shoot somewhere (isn't the house too old for that?). The base of the chimney in the basement has a hole almost like it was a fireplace too. It goes on and on. Pictures to come later lol.

mattmia2 · November 5

people still had to wash their clothes when it was by hand and then with a wringer washer. I don't know how far back the detroit water system goes, i'm pretty sure it was in some areas in the 1890's.

the extension ringer isn't unusual in a large house, especially with a lot of kids or elderly people hard of hearing.

The ducts may be from indirect radiators where the radiator was below the floor in a box and warm air circulated up through a duct. They usually had an intake from outside. Could have been a floor furnace or a hot air furnace that was replaced with steam. It may not have had central heat at all when it was built.

1895 Detroit Home - Single Pipe Steam Unknown Condition - Initial Inspection

Comments

Categories