Gas boiler heating house without call for heat
Comments
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No, on my meter OL means open just like in the video you linked. I should have written 0.0 ohms. Sorry for the confusion
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@EBEBRATT-Ed If there was a short in the thermostat or thermostat wire, wouldn't it create issues during heating season? Calls for heat from the thermostat and boiler cycling have worked pretty much as expected (knock on wood).
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With all the detective work you guys have done on my behalf, I kinda feel like I've let you down ordering a replacement part 😂
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No problem. The replacement part or the no part rewire fix, it is all the same result. This upcoming will cost less for your heat.
I think your error of leaving the Flo-Valve open was "good karma"!!! you would have been wasting energy for many more years to come if that didn't happen.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Also no problem. It is like a Treasure Hunt when the defect is found, that is the Treasure. In your case you get at least two or three treasures depending on how you look at it. Interesting how it all played out, since you really did not come here for that exact issue.
1. You found the defective part without firing the parts cannon at the situation.
2. Your Gas bill should go down significantly, especially in the summer time.
3. You now know a lot more about your boiler's electrical system, and you got to dig out your meter and make good use it.
Sadly troubleshooting over the internet is often slow. Back in the day, I imagine @EdTheHeaterMan would have just grabbed a relay off his truck or I would have started with the meter in the first place. A meter is very handy when simple substitution fails or the parts are not immediately available.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System1 -
Having a well stocked service truck is vital to selling service contracts. That relay is something that would be covered under the contract and ordering a replacement relay from the supply house and taking a return trip to the customers home is a cost I tried to avoid.
And you are correct @109A_5, that relay was always on my truck. At least 3 of them, and one each with the 120 VAC coil and the 208/220 Coil. They were very popular in the 1950s thru 1990s, for all kinds of fixes and system designing, before the RIB Functional Devices became popular in the 2010s.
I think that @FrankMaraschino is doing the correct thing ordering the replacement relay. Now will he attempt to put the circulator back on the CR2 contacts?
Ya know I wouldn't be surprised if that relay failed with both the gas valve and circulator overheating the house. The repair tech had that Taco SR501 on the truck and decided that was an easy way to fix the problem without making a return trip with the proper relay. Just let the boiler cycle on the high limit and operate the circulator with the thermostat connected to the SR501. It ain't my gas bill!
@FrankMaraschino probably purchased the home with the heater that way, and never knew any better.
"I love it when a plan comes together"
OK @109A_5 It's your turn to pat ourselves on the back again. LOL
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I think @FrankMaraschino did know his meter, I just did not want to make any assumptions about what he wrote.
I've known many meters over the years VTVMs, VOMs, DMMs and a lot of other Electrical / Electronic test equipment, just wanted to be sure we were on the same page. If a measurement or meter reading is interpreted wrong you may go in the wrong troubleshooting direction.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System1 -
@EdTheHeaterMan That is an interesting Repair Tech scenario, very plausible. However a more expensive repair for the customer. The Repair Tech could have also removed the 'CR' as you suggested. Maybe days later the Repair Tech woke up in the middle of the night screaming, but was too embarrassed to go back and correct it.
" Now will he attempt to put the circulator back on the CR2 contacts? " It would be interesting if the wires on the CR2 contacts looked like they were previously used.
Other than the 'one relay controlling another' situation I kind of like the SR501 controlling the circulator, slightly less wiring inside the boiler jacket. Separate stages may be easier to troubleshoot, but only having one relay is pretty simple too. Either way works.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
Oh, i also thought that the failed relay is how it got the taco relay. Not sure if they figured out that the relay in the boiler was stuck or if they couldn't figure it out and added the taco relay.
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Fastest fix and out the door.
I'm surprised the customer did not complain about the gas bill after the repair. Maybe that is why they sold the house.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System1 -
"I think that @FrankMaraschino is doing the correct thing ordering the replacement relay. Now will he attempt to put the circulator back on the CR2 contacts?"
If you guys tell me which wire(s) to put where, I'll do it. New relay should be here by 7 pm.
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@EdTheHeaterMan posted the 'CR' bypass back on page 2 when we started to have a discussion about that method. Color image with B&W image in the Lower Left corner and his annotations as what to change. At this point I'd put the replacement relay in as proof that it all works as expected. You can always change it later if you want to.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System2 -
Got it. So it's an either/or thing.
So, update: the new relay arrived from Supply House during dinner. I got a dispensation from the lady of the manor to interrupt dinner and quickly head downstairs along with two very excited kids to install it. After I plugged the new relay in, I returned power to the boiler and the damper opened. That was it.
My 8-year old: "Nothing's happening."
I turned to my 12-year old and told him to go upstairs, set the thermostat to Heat, hold the up arrow until it flashed above the room temperature, then press the up arrow repeatedly until it was 2 degrees higher than the room temperature.
My 12-year old: "But you said never touch the thermostat."
Me: "This is an exception."
My 8-year old: "How come he gets to do it?"
Me: "You can both do it." I told the 12-year old to let his brother do it, and "supervise." They ran up the basement stairs.
I expected the next sounds I heard to be kids fighting in the living room but after a half a minute or so, I heard the boiler click and the burners fire up. Then two kids stampeding down the basement stairs.
"Did it work?" the 8 year old asked.
I told him it did.
Thank you to everyone who pitched in to help us out. It's very kind of you all to offer your time and your expertise to help strangers. My wife wanted me to extend her gratitude as well. I've learned a lot. This site is a great resource. I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future.
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the damper shouldn't be opening without a call for heat either unless there is some post purge that is built in and it will close after a couple minutes or something but that costs a lot less than keeping the boiler hot all the time.
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Fun story. But " After I plugged the new relay in, I returned power to the boiler and the damper opened. That was it. "
The Damper should only open when the thermostat is calling for heat.
So if the room is 70 and the thermostat is set for 65, the SR501 should not be active, the 'CR' should not be energized, the Damper should be closed and the burner should be off.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System1 -
Oh, I almost forgot: No more buzzing!
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Hmm. It was a little squeal, like what I associate with the damper opening. The thermostat was set to Off when I powered the boiler on. The burner was definitely off until the call for heat from the thermostat. Maybe I mis-heard something, then. Let me try again.
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Yeah you can see from the video I uploaded just above that when I power-cycled the boiler there was no little squeal from the damper that time.
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damper was probably open from the stuck relay and closed when you powered it with no heat call.
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Once the boiler fires, if the thermostat is then turned down the burner shuts off and the Damper closes ?
Often you can see the Damper shaft move between the flue pipe and the Damper motor assembly.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
That's exactly what happens. When thermostat is turned off, burner shuts off and you can see the flat shaft on the damper rotate.
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Sounds like it is working as it should, Good ! Hopefully with the money saved on the gas bill you and the Family can do something Fun.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System1 -
Success!
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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