Learning my system: WGO-4 firing up-to12x/day in summer

Hi, new homeowner trying to learn my system and figure out if the aquastat is why my boiler is firing every ~2hrs for ~5min, heat off, in 90+ degree weather, using ~1.25gal oil/day. 2-person home, 5min showers, DW 1x/wk. Most times the boiler fires the line to my indirect HW tank stays room temp.
Boiler: Weil-Mclain P-WGO-4, series 3 (installed 2004)
Beckett AFG
Taco 007-F5 circulator on the boiler and each zone
Expansion tank HTX 30 Flex2 Pro, manuf. 12/11?
Aquastat: L8148A, HI at 185F. No low. Uncle has similar boiler with a L8124A,C L8151A
4-Zone Switch Relay Taco SR504
Zones: 4? Please see image. I only have 3 thermostats in the house. House is 1400SF. Combo of 1-1/4" (bit over 1.5" OD) black iron (original 1950s part) and 3/4" copper (renos and 1980s addition).
WH: Velocity Boilerworks MS2-040 (40-gal indirect), set at 120F
Serviced 4months ago by oil company. I'm going through manuals and have spare electrode kit, nozzle, filter cartridge.
Comments
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what does it look like under the cover of the boiler aquastat?
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could be the circulator for the indirect isn't running and the boiler is just sitting at high limit and heating the tank by convection, possibly through the return if there is a functioning flow check in the circulator.
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See attached. Thanks for replying!
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I should have clarified: when the HW tank calls for heat that line does get hot, but most times the boiler seems to be maintaining a high temp and the ~180+ heat doesn’t run past any zone circulators.
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then we have to look at how the zone panel is wired
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There is a problem with your system. It could be that wiring has been damaged, it could be a defective thermostat for the water heater, it could be incorrect wiring design for the Indirect water heater tank. What you described to me sounds like the boiler is maintaining a temperature and it does not have the proper control for maintaining temperature. That boiler is not designed to maintain temperature with the control system you have described.
Here is what the sequence of operation for your system should be.
- Start with a cold boiler on a summer day when there is no call for heat. The boiler should be the same temperature as the room the boiler occupies.
- The water heater is maintaining a temperature based on the setting of the water heater aquastat. (120°)
- The water heater temperature drops below the temperature set-point of the aquastat as a result of hot water use, or just because of off cycle loss over several (16 or more) hours of non use. The aquastat calls for hot water
- The call for heat reaches the Taco SR 504 (or SR 506) control and the LED indicates that there is a call for DHW (Domestic Hot Water)
- The DHW circulator operates to move water from the boiler to the DHW tank
- The oil burner operates to heat the boiler water.
- The burner continues to operate until
- The call for DHW is satisfied and both the calculator pump and the burner stops.
- The high limit on the L8148 is reached and the burner stops but the circulator continues to operate until the call for heat is satisfied.
- The burner may restart once the boiler water temperature drops enough to allow the high limit to close contacts. The circulator is still operating.
- The call for DHW is satisfied and the burner and circulator both stop.
- The boiler temperature will slowly drop over time and eventually get to the room temperature of the boiler room.
My first step is to see if the circulator for the DHW is operating. They are very quiet so I take a straw and use it like a stethoscope and place it on the pump motor and the other end close to my ear to see if I hear anything. (unless you are in the medical field and you own a real stethoscope)
If the circulator is not operating then I would check the wire that goes from X X on the Taco SR504 relay to the T T on the L8148 aquastat. If that wire is damaged and connected (often called shorted) then that is the problem and the wire needs to be replaced. You can test that by removing one of the low voltage wires from the T T on the L8148 aquastat if the burner continues to operate, then the L8148 is defective, if the burner stops operating then the wire is defective or the Taco SR504 X X terminals are defective. To see if that is the case, I would need to see inside the cover of the Taco SR relay.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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any chance the connections to t-t are shorted?
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Post a good quality picture of this box with the cover off. What zone indicators are on (if any) when you believe the boiler should not be firing but is.
Is it easy to catch it in the act ? Do you have a multi-meter ?
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System1 -
There is another option. Disconnect all that stuff, let your boiler rest in the summer and install a simple electric or heat pump water heater.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
There are 5 zones that go into the zone panel. Terminals XX in the Zone Panel should connect to TT in the aquastat, with nothing else attached. When the boiler is on, and nothing is calling, are any of the Red lights on at the zone panel?
You say when the burner is on, and there's no heat demand, "the ~180+ heat doesn't run past any zone circulators."
C1 in the aquastat is connected to this circulator. Its got some type of bypass at the back wall. And that circulator is pumping into the expansion tank.
If no Red lights are on at the zone panel, but the burner comes on, see if TT is closed. If yes, go to the zone panel, or there's an intermittent short between TT and XX. If no, bad aquastat. Though I've never seen an L8148 magically aquire a differential.
At the zone panel, there are 5 BX cables feeding the 5 circulators. However, I only see 5 total low voltage wires going into the zone panel. There should be 6. 5 for the zone thermostats, and 1 for the isolated end switch between XX and TT. Something isn't wired correctly.
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Edit: Got curious and traced wires during a break. When we were buying the house we saw 2 apprentices replace the water heater in a rush.
-Z1 = Hallway TT near Guest BR
-Z2 = Addition TT
-Z3 = HW tank
-Z4 = Kitchen/dining TT
Zone 4 priority is off. Isn't HW typically Z4 w/ priority?
Thermostat wire from boiler is disconnected and capped.
Outbound from SR504 to circulators:
-Z1 goes to circulators leftmost and 2nd from right
-Z2 goes to unmarked Z2 (addition)
-Z3 goes to Z3 for HW
-Z4 missing a neutral
-The bypass circulator next to the boiler is only wired to bottom right part of the service switch?
See attached. I took this while the boiler was firing, ~10min after showering. No zone lights are on. HW appears to be on Zone 4, but the pipes connecting to it were all room temp. It shut off after a few minutes.
I'll try calling for heat from each thermostat after work to confirm the zone in the Taco matches the labels on the circulators.
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I grew up with oil and baseboard heat. What you're describing (infrequent calls) is how I remember that system working. Thank you for the step by step description of how it should work, I appreciate the sanity check.
I'll take a look at that wire after work.
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The dhw ideally would be on the priority zone but if you have enough hot water I wouldn't worry about it. If you don't have enough dhw then you can move the dhw to the priority zone and turn on priority.
Connect t-t from the boiler to x-x on the zone control. for some reason they shorted t-t in the zone panel to keep the boiler at full temp constantly.
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Are these wires (1 each) connected to the thermostat terminals ? And not shorted inside the L8184A, by design or mistake ? Where does this cable go ? Those wires should go to the XX in the Taco SR504. There seems to be nothing on the XX terminals on the Taco SR504. From here it look like the wires that should go to the XX of the Taco SR504 are just connected together under the Yellow wire nut inside the Taco SR504. I would connect them to the XX terminals of the Taco SR504. If needed move the DHW to zone 4 (thermostat and circulator) and turn the priority on.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
The 2 wires connected inside the top right terminal in L8148A are disconnected and capped inside the Taco SR504 (yellow cap). Any idea why someone would disconnect it? The manual cautioned not to if you have a 3-wire zone valve, but I don't see one on my system.
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It appears you don't have any Zone Valves, systems usually have one method or the other, Zone Valves or zoning using circulators, yours uses circulators. The isolation your documentation requires is provided by the " X-X Isolated End Switch " terminals provided by the Taco SR504. The X-X Isolated End Switch is an isolated contact closure when one of the zones is calling for heat. That isolated contact closure is how the Taco SR504 tells the boiler to fire.
I suspect one of two things why it was wired as found.
Not enough DHW in the Winter so they forced the boiler to maintain 180 degrees with only the High Limit of the L8184A as the boilers temperature control. IMO that wastes a lot of fuel and adds to the wear and tear of the system.
and/or
They did not understand the Zone 4 priority for DHW, so in the Winter time there was insufficient DHW so keeping the boiler water at 180 degrees solved that issue at the price of a lot of fuel use to keep the boiler at 180 degrees constantly.
As mentioned above I would connect the L8184A thermostat terminals (T-T) to the Taco SR504 X-X Isolated End Switch terminals and move the DHW thermostat and circulator wiring to Zone 4 and turn the priority switch on.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System1 -
Another thought;
I saw a stray or spare relay on top of the Taco SR504's cabinet. If the relay that provides the " X-X Isolated End Switch " functionality is defective or the Taco SR504 is defective not providing the " X-X Isolated End Switch " functionality, connecting the L8184A thermostat terminals (T-T) wires together inside the SR504 may have been a quick and dirty fix.
IIRC the relays are not all the same (however that may be a different model). Maybe the replacement relay was wrong and did not function correctly.
It may have been done in the hopes that no one would notice. But you did notice.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System1 -
Yet another possible scenario. Possibly a troubleshooting attempt that was basically not fully completed.
See image below. Since the L8184A Aquastats have a known issue of the solder joints (on the other side of the circuit board near the Orange arrows) fail where the relay (Red box) is soldered to the circuit board. It often starts out as an intermittent firing situation.
With the L8184A thermostat terminals (T-T) connected together (Yellow wire nut) inside the Taco SR504, if the boiler runs continuously with only the high limit (180 degrees) interrupting the boiler's firing the L8184A's relay solder joints are probably OK.
Since the DHW does not appear to be on Zone 4, the previously posted scenarios may be more plausible, the Taco SR504 was just not installed correctly, so the 'Fix' (for possible insufficient DHW) they came up with was goofy too.
BTW (possible information for the future) should the L8184A's relay solder joints eventually dilapidate, they are easy to repair if you have the tools and skills. However most of the time the Aquastat is just replaced.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
The spare relay on the cabinet is an Omron LY2-B3 24VAC. Prongs 1 & 2 appear bent by hand. All the relays inside the cabinet are Global MC2C-S-AC120 or Global MC2C-S-AC24.
I'll try reattaching the L8148A T-T wire to the SR504 X-X when I have someone else here with me in person in case I cause a different issue / family is worried I'll damage the boiler. What everyone here is describing makes sense and seems straightforward though.
Thank you all for being patient and helpful!
P.S. I was reviewing the installation manual for the WH and noticed the 1st wiring diagram/install option is a non-priority configuration (priority is the next page). Makes me wonder if that's why it was installed that way.
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Yeah, when installing equipment the installer should find the correct diagrams that best fits the system, otherwise things may not work correctly.
I believe it should look something like this (edited from other drawings). Is there 2 circulators on Zone 1 ? That may shorten the life of that relay.
Also there appears to be a Neutral (white) wire missing (Red arrow), maybe it is under the wire nut (Yellow arrow) and I can't see it, maybe it is connected elsewhere. (You did list this earlier, I missed it) Does that circulator presently connected to Zone 4 work ?
Shut the power off before doing the rework.
I would probably just connect X-X to T-T and swap Zone 3 and Zone 4 (circulator and thermostat wiring), turn the priority on.
Find the missing Neutral and/or find out what's going on with that. Make sure that circulator works correctly.
Then see how it all works.
Also the boiler's circulator is controlled by the L8148A Aquastat, Yellow wire C1 (Red arrow). I suspect the boiler's circulator was running continuously too with the T-T connected under the wire nut. The 180 degree High Limit (the Brown Microswitch connected with the Blue and Red wires) only shuts the burner down not the circulator. When you get it all working as it should be working, your electric bill may go down a bit too.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
" P.S. I was reviewing the installation manual for the WH and noticed the 1st wiring diagram/install option is a non-priority configuration (priority is the next page). Makes me wonder if that's why it was installed that way. "
Maybe the manual I found is different than yours. The first drawing in this manual states "Non-Priority" and uses circulators, however in this second drawing it uses Zone Valves. If this diagram (or one like it) was used it may have been confusing, I don't see any provision for DHW priority in this second drawing.
Item C. below (Red arrow) should have been consulted.
However your Taco SR504 is the older version so some of the connections are in different places, if you don't have the older documentation. I like the older version better since it has easily replaceable relays in sockets, with the newer version the relays are soldered to the circuit board.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0
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