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I'm getting solar panels. I'll let you know how it goes in this discussion thread.

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ethicalpaul
ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,762

What went into my decision:

  • At the end of this year, the 30% federal tax credit on installation cost is going away thanks to a big bill that recently passed. So I'm doing it partially out of spite.
  • NJ's PSE&G just had a big electric rate increase
  • NJ still has 1:1 net metering (where they will give me full credit for every kW I send to the grid). I believe I get locked into that for something like 15 years.
  • NJ has an SREC system where I will get $85 for every MWh that I generate. Also 15 years.

I'm using a place called NJ Solar Power, they are primarily a commercial solar installer, but they do (for now) have a residential division.

One interesting thing is they don't use a micro-inverter system where each panel gets its output converted to AC…they run the DC from all the panels into a central inverter located on the ground (SolarEdge). I'll let you know how that goes, but I like a single converter from high voltage DC to AC.

Here is the solar profile for my house on the left, it's not bad due to my 10:12 south-facing roof. But the large dormer interrupts it. My neighbor to the right has an ideal situation. High roof, good angle and direction. You can see your own solar profile at https://sunroof.withgoogle.com

image.png

Here is a recent article that has a lot of statistics in it that I was unaware of:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-a-warming-planet/46-billion-years-on-the-sun-is-having-a-moment

NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

HVACNUTHot_water_fan
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Comments

  • How many panels are you having installed? How many kw? Do you have an electric car?

    We have 17 panels, 5.78 kw and use only half of what we generate since we haven't decided on which electric car to get. Won't get a Tesla.

    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    ethicalpaulHVACNUTGGross
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,169

    Good luck to it! We installed a 10KW ground mount system (nothing like being a farm — you have acreage to play with!) about a year ago, and it's working fine. Much the same deal with the power company that you will have.

    For the year we have generated very slightly more energy that we have used.

    We figure the payback on investment will be around 10 years, although with recent rate increases it may be shorter.

    It does use microinverters, and we've had a couple fail — infant mortality — but they were easy to replace.

    Next step is going to be seeing about a big battery bank — but at the moment at least it doesn't pay.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    ethicalpaulPC7060GGross
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,762

    18 panels, if the town will approve it. 7.83 kW

    I made sure to get my EV car (Nissan Leaf) a few years ago (plus the HP water heater and the induction stove) so that it would all count on my annual usage.

    This is because in NJ, in order to get the 1:1 net metering, I can't install more solar capacity than my annual electrical usage (they don't want us being power plants). So I wanted to make sure my usage over the last year was near its reasonable maximum. I did not plug in a hair dryer in my garage for the last year to bump it up higher (although I considered it 😅).

    When 1:1 net metering is removed by NJ (it's only a matter of time) and my lock-in runs out, I will be looking at a battery but for now the grid is my battery.

    image.png

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,895

    Hi @ethicalpaul , Have you done what can be done to make your place efficient before sizing the solar system? Are you looking at backup batteries so you can coast through power outages? And about Teslas, I've learned some older cars have free charging for life. I understand the average gas bill in the US is about $5000 yearly, so free "fuel" could be nice. Still, if you get full credit for power you put into the grid, you would be better off charging at a Tesla supercharger. 🤠

    Yours, Larry

    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,762

    Thanks! A friend of mine in lower-upstate NY has a ground mount system too and it is real nice. He did get the Generac battery since they lose power all the time (at my house we almost never have an outage)

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,762

    My place is about as efficient as I can reasonably make it. The exception is the attic which I will eventually improve (after I replace the old wiring that's up there). No battery yet because we never lose power. I don't have a tesla but we don't put that many miles on our Nissan Leaf, just around town stuff mostly—I take the bus to work, so it's not a large amount anyway.

    If I start using way less electric, the utility will cut off my excess production from getting credits…measured over a 1 year period. That's my understanding. So I'll just continue motoring along.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,456

    I have always been curious concerning roof mount panel; do you consider the R&R cost of the panels when you have to re-shingle the roof?

    I live where hail storms can happen every few years putting shingles and panels at risk. Are the panels insured with your home policy?

    Makes metal roofing look more desirable, if allowed.

    ethicalpaul
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 25,328

    I have 6200w installed with a Sunny Boy single inverter. This inverter will supply 2000w in the event of a power outage, but you have to manually switch it

    How often do you have a power outage?

    Sounds like a good deal from NJ and on the feedback. I need to use my excess feed back or it expires every March

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,762

    I had my roof stripped and shingled a couple years ago, so that shouldn't be an issue. The solar companies won't install onto an old roof—they make you shingle it first.

    We don't have hailstorms where I live…I think the largest I've seen is pea sized once. I think I will have to inform my insurance that I have solar panels and they will increase my premium.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,762

    We almost never have a power outage. There was one a couple years ago where some guy hit a pole with his car.

    I think we get a one-time reset of the date of the year when the expiration date (or rollover date?) is where the counter starts over on the usage vs production math.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,450
    edited July 16

    It wouldn't be hard or particularly expensive to make the glass on the panels tempered glass bedded in such a way that they are nearly hail proof. There are roofing systems that are also if that is a recurring problem in your area.

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,762

    AI says:

    image.png

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,169

    We're on the same 1:1 deal that @ethicalpaul is talking about. Works out well enough at least so far. Who knows what will come down the road — out power company is happy enough with the deal, but legislators are unpredictable, never mind the public utilities commission…

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    ethicalpaul
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,450

    tempered glass doesn't crack…

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,762

    Don't hijack my solar power thread regarding hail that I don't get in my area please 😅

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    PC7060DCContrarianHot_water_fanGGross
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 25,328

    The pitch, angle of the modules, has a lot to do with damage from hail, or seagulls dropping shells on the modules.

    At least that is what we found with thermal collectors. And yes tempered glass will shatter if hit with a sharp object.

    Evac tubes, being annealed glass are more prone to breaking from hail. This steep array after a hail storm.

    Screenshot 2025-07-16 at 1.57.12 PM.png
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,762

    well luckily I don’t get hail (not sure why we’re still talking about it!!), but if I do you’ll hear about it here.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • Kaos
    Kaos Member Posts: 673
    edited July 16

    The ship has probably sailed, single inverter would work for your right neighbor but your install would work much better with micro inverters. Partial shading is the bane of PV arrays.

    You can still make the current setup work well if they can get an inverter that has multiple MPPT inputs (ie SMA Sunny Boy Inverter SB6.0 ) and try to break up the arrays so partial shading will only effect some of the strings instead of all of them.

    Good for you for taking the plunge. With the power prices I see down there, I'm surprised there isn't more PV, ROI is very quick.

    @JUGHNE PV arrays protect the shingles since they shade them and keep UV out. The shingles under the array will last a lot longer. Metal+PV is great but spendy.

    ethicalpaulAlan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,762

    @Kaos these panels (all panels) have 2 or 3 sections, each with a diode, that allows shaded panels to allow the current from the other panels to pass through.

    Also, these panels each will have an optimizer that will maximize the power regardless of shading.

    here is a video about it, there are many others:

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,450

    Unless the climate is such that the shading keeps them damp all the time. Being wet most of the time is just as bad as UV to degrade them.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 25,328

    I wish mine would get wet occasionally, rain cleans them off and in this 100 degree heat cooling them down would increase production.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    ethicalpaulLarry WeingartenGGross
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,762

    Nope, NJ is more sunny than Michigan. Stop trying to harsh my solar install before it's even installed 😂

    I just got the approval from the NJ Solar Incentive program. I think there's still a utility permit required which should come this week, then the contractor applies for the town permit.

    I think they submitted the permits about two weeks ago. The whole project should be 8 weeks total, so in maybe a month or so things should be about lined up for the install.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    PC7060
  • Kaos
    Kaos Member Posts: 673

    As long as you have multiple MPPT channels (or optimizers) and they don't do anything silly like wire east facing panels in series with west facing ones, it will work well.

  • DCContrarian
    DCContrarian Member Posts: 1,140

    When I installed my first array, I made my house as inefficient as possible!

    My power company would only allow you to install an array that provided 70% of your historical power usage. I wanted a bigger one. So I held off on a number of improvements until after the array had been installed.

    ethicalpaul
  • JakeCK
    JakeCK Member Posts: 1,498
    edited July 17

    Welcome to the club.

    I have a 42 panel 12kw system with enphase micro's installed end of 2021.

    I've slowly moved all my appliances except for the boiler over to electric. Still not a dime spent on electric since the spring of 2022... I did suffer one panel failure and one micro failure that was handled under warranty. Did pay for squirrel 🐿️ defenses. Little buggers.

    1000012216.png
    ethicalpaulPC7060
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,762

    that’s a lot of panels!!

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,228

    i try not to post or comment on anything being i do not advertise nor post here being all are way smarter then myself but if you where not getting a discount because of the rebate which are usually the result of the rest of our taxes paying for your solar panels would you reach into your own pocket and buy them and pay some one else to install or as usually just do the you tube video and do it yourself . Just wondering when the free give aways disappear will you still be interested in solar ? Knowing most w $ took advantage of the geo and solar hydronic when there where incentives when they clearly had more then enough to purchase out right and not effect there stock portfolio or net worth . Knowing that just about all solar hydronic system that i have been asked to look at had never had anything done to them from day they where installed being it was too costly due to the expensive of fluid testing replacement and what would be considered standard maintenance of the system . Plus absolutely no one really wants to work on them being they have just about all left w there ancient out of date stuff from over seas so array just sit of there mounts looking good doing zip

    So just wondering would you even think of doing it if it where coming completely out of your pocket and zero state or federal rebates incentives ?

    clammy

    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,762

    Yes I would consider it, but the removal of the incentive in December definitely pushed me over the line in this case.

    After the incentives are gone, the price will reduce, so I still may have done it anyway since philosophically I am aligned with solar power and since electricity cost is really going up here in NJ.

    I sense a little scorn in your wording regarding incentives. To that I would say there are tax incentives for farming, for fossil fuel production, having children, and innumerable other things so I don't feel guilty at all about taking some of MY tax money back. Thank you!

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    notruckAlan (California Radiant) ForbesHot_water_fanGGross
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 25,328

    look like bio heating oil receives a lot if federal and state tax dollars for incentives. What about those that do not heat with oil? Are they paying?

    IMG_0659.jpeg
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    ChrisJethicalpaulJakeCK
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,169

    I don't usually really like incentives… as you all know. The income tax incentive for the solar was definitely a factor in making it cost effective, however, and like @ethicalpaul , if someone is going to give me a big break on something… I'll take it.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    ethicalpaul
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 25,328

    NJ is #11 for residential solar installed, , Michigan #25

    NJ was always one if the top solar dhw states also.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    ethicalpaul
  • OffGridICF
    OffGridICF Member Posts: 9

    Totally off grid here with about 8kW of panels, a Schneider/Xantrex 6kW inverter and large battery bank. There are three MPPT charge controllers tied to parallel strings of modules. We run almost anything we want to with no problems. Cabinet saw, TIG welder, small window A/C, etc. Just not all at once ;-) Since our solar resource is not great during the short overcast winter days we burn about 50 gallons of diesel each year in a backup generator. If you are building a new home any distance from the grid the cost to extend the grid can be more expensive than a large solar system.

    Changing from lead acid batteries to LiFePO4 was a great decision. They don't need to be fully charged every week and don't have to be watered.

    In our previous home we were grid-tied. Having battery backup was great since the transfer from grid to inverter and back was maybe just a flicker, if that. I never even saw a PC crash during the transfer.

    Having some modules oriented both a little east and a little west can be beneficial since that will increase the output in the morning and evening. The peak output will be less, but it seems like a good trade-off. All of our modules are facing due south at a steep angle so they actually shade themselves late in the day during summer. The surrounding terrain also limits their production. They are almost all ground mounted to allow safe snow removal, a big deal here. The previous system had modules on a tracker but that doesn't make sense now that modules are so much less expensive .

    PV_Rack_Snow1s.jpg
    Larry Weingartenethicalpaul
  • We still have our gas dryer, gas stove and gas boiler because I'm a natural (gas) guy. Hard to give up something that's taken care of me all these years and I'm not ready to jump in on a heat pump for my heating. There aren't enough good equipment choices yet.

    We're getting a battery later this month and I look forward to importing-exporting less to the grid.

    0.png
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    ethicalpaul
  • JakeCK
    JakeCK Member Posts: 1,498

    There is quite a bit of thought that can go into optimizing solar panels when you start taking into consideration more than just pointing the panels directly at the sun but also things like clipping(when the panel can push more power than the inverter can handle), how the panels age, production on cloudy days, and so on. Kind of fun actually.

    OffGridICF
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,762

    luckily for me, my roof is limited in size and fixed positionally

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,841

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    ethicalpaulJakeCKCanucker
  • JakeCK
    JakeCK Member Posts: 1,498

    That's where you need to really engineer it out well. For example, instead of matching the solar panel wattage to the inverters capacity, oversize the panels. In my case the panels are 340 watt but the micro inverters are only 300. Yes I loose potential output during the peak. But that only lasts a few hours with stationary panels. And only during the months when the sun is highest in the sky. Having those higher output panels means I have better production numbers in overcast conditions all year but also as the panels age I still maintain the original capacity overall. They really only clip out from about 11:30am to 12:30-1pm.

    Another advantage is maintaining output even while the panels are baking. I had to go all the way back to May 9th to find a time when they clipped out this year because of how hot it has been.

    1000012217.png
    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,762

    Gotcha. In my case, a solar company is speccing the panels and the optimizers. I just made sure the panels had a good capacity by today's standards. As you can see by my roof layout earlier in the thread, I do have some easterly and westerly facing panels on my dormer

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el