Smoke smell in house with oil boiler
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An air purifier isn't going to do much for a smoke smell, though it might reduce the amount of particulates in the air. But smells aren't particulate, so…
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
Its so odd that this smell comes and goes the way you say it does. I have that same air filter and like @neilc said it only circulates air in the room it is located, it does not cause air to come up from cracks or from outside to inside.
Is there any way for you to isolate rooms from each other to try an narrow down where the strongest odors are? Either by closing doors or draping sheets/sheeting to isolate the rooms from each other just to try and get a sense of direction where this could be coming from. How did you make out getting the exhaust damper installed, I know this was also advised as something to look into in an earlier post.
Do you have a neighbor nearby that can kind of help divide and conquer trying to locate a breeze or direction where the smell could be coming from. One person in cellar one person on first floor or one in front of a floor and the other working from back. Sometimes it takes a fresh eye (nose in this case) to help troubleshoot something that get frustrating like this.
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Correct.
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At this point I detect the odor in all of the downstairs rooms at various times, and also upstairs. Upstairs I "think" it's mainly when the furnace is running.
The strategy I'm using currently is to turn the thermostat down to 50 overnight so the furnace doesn't come on very often. In the morning I turn it up to 60. When the temperature in the house hits 60 I turn it down a couple of degrees. After awhile the smoke smell dissipates and then I have a few hours of decent air quality. I also open a window in the basement during the day and close it at night.
I'm thinking that the variations in the smell and the smell suddenly starting when the furnace isn't even running is due to changes in pressure in the chimney according to the weather and wind and residual odors in the chimney when the furnace is off. It does seem better when it's warmer outside.
I recently spent several hours in the garage, which is connected to the basement by an open doorway and other air passages, and the smell wasn't present even when the furnace was running. I don't really smell it in the vicinity of the furnace either.
I haven't had the damper installed yet. We've been getting snow several times a week here and I've had to shift my attention to snow removal.
I don't foresee getting a chimney liner until spring, if I go that route. I have wood ready to burn if the problem gets worse. I'll see if the air purifier helps in my small office.
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PeteA, do you find your Winix 5500-2 effective?
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I haven't had the damper installed yet. We've been getting snow several times a week here and I've had to shift my attention to snow removal.
Its been 3 weeks!
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I guess it depends on what you're trying to get out of it. I have mine set up in a rental property that is currently not occupied and I am just using it to circulate air around and just filter out minor dust and any other nuisance particles that may be in the air. It seems to do a good job for that purpose since when I am working in the house the fan does ramp up automatically when it detects vapors from the paints and cleaners or other particulates I may stir up while working in the house.
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Well, it's been 3 weeks since you flossed but you don't see me pointing that out publicly because I can imagine so many reasons why you've neglected that life-saving task. Fun exercise for you: list 10 reasons why someone in a major snow zone would be slow to get a damper installed. Floss first, though.
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my god
How long does it take to install a damper!!!
if there’s smell there’s probably COHave you at least ordered Low Level CO detector or the snows too high?
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@Hemlock ,it's just that you're addressing everything except the actual issue. You have a positive pressure boiler without a draft regulator. And it's putting odors into the living space. All the air purifiers and floss in the world isn't going to fix that. The work should be done asap. The cover on the left side of the boiler (where Freds sticker is) should be removed and the heat exchanger inspected and cleaned if needed. The tech that does the work needs to set the draft with a draft gauge (0 to slightly positive over fire and -.02 to -.03 breach). Smoke (0) and combustion tests should also be done. This will provide you with absolute proof that the boiler is running clean, and drafting properly. If you have a service agreement with anyone and its been serviced in the past, someone should've noticed.
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I'm doing the best I can given my particular circumstances. I gave the results of the tests you mention previously. One suggestion was given for a slight adjustment. My plan is to have a damper installed and if that doesn't solve the problem I'll look into a liner when I'm able. It would be helpful if someone could say there's a better than 50/50 chance that a damper will help the problem as my finances are limited.
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The damper is required by the installation instructions for the boiler to function properly. It's not very expensive, much less expensive than a liner.
Would you want to drive a car or operate any other machines without them being assembled without all the required parts?
Focus on correcting the things that are obviously wrong, like the flue damper missing. It's a lot easier to figure out what is causing issues when the boiler is installed correctly, using all necessary parts.
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UL approved CO Detectors will not alarm until 70 PPM has been exceeded for up to 4 hours!
Non-UL Approved models will alert at 15 PPM! Amazon will deliver tomorrow even in the snow.
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Well stated, SuperTech. I'll have this done then. I wonder why no past technician mentioned this. At least 6 or 7 people have cleaned or inspected the furnace and flue pipe.
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HVACNUT, can you say more about this?: "You have a positive pressure boiler without a draft regulator."
According to google AI, "A 'positive pressure oil furnace' refers to an oil furnace that creates a slightly higher air pressure inside the combustion chamber than the surrounding environment, essentially pushing the flue gases out of the chimney; while most positive pressure oil furnaces do not require a barometric damper because they already have a controlled positive pressure, it's always best to consult the manufacturer's instructions as some situations may still necessitate one depending on the specific design and chimney configuration. A barometric damper is . . . typically used on furnaces with negative pressure venting systems to prevent backdrafting. . . . In some cases, even with a positive pressure furnace, a barometric damper might be recommended if the chimney design is particularly problematic or if there are significant fluctuations in outside air pressure."
From google AI's original source: "Barometric dampers are installed only on boilers with negative venting. Boilers with pressurized vents would spill flue gases out of the barometric dampers into the room."
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positive pressure boilers do not require a barometric draft regulator unless required by local code or required when a draft test indicates its need. It's not at all uncommon to see a positive pressure boiler with out a draft regulator, though how often a test is actually done is another issue.
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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I found the installation instructions for the Smith 8 series oil burner:
"The 8 Series boiler-burner unit . . . is rated for natural draft firing with -0.02" W.C. over the fire draft."
"For energy conservation, the boiler can be vented directly into a chimney without the use of a barometric draft control, unless required by code or in instances where the chimney can develop excessive draft. Overfire draft greater than -0.05" WC, with the burner in operation, is excessive (normal draft is -0.02 to -0.04" WC) ."
On the printout from the technician the draft was -0.188 mbar. Apparently that's .075 water column inches. EdTheHeaterMan also stated previously, "That would translate to about -.0.05" wc over the fire. I believe that HB Smith recommends no more than -0.01" wc over the fire for efficient operation. Did they take an over fire draft?"
I don't know the answer to that question, but from Ed's calculation of -.05" wc over the fire, it seems that the draft is just barely higher than Smith's maximum spec.
Q1: If smoke is being drawn from the chimney into the basement—I have now confirmed that this is the case, contrary to what I said earlier—doesn't that indicate low draft, rather than high?
Q2: In that case, how can a barometric damper help?
Q3: I think y'all are saying that regardless of the manufacturer's specs and test results, this is a problem situation where a damper should be installed. Is that correct?
A couple of details I didn't mention earlier. The house is on a slope with pine trees over 100' very close to the rear of the house. The chimney is located on the back of the house. The prevailing wind of the south-facing house is toward the front of the house. Two things have changed in recent years: (1) Much more frequent wind storms with higher winds. (2) One of those tall pines fell, opening up a space. I don't know if either of those things is relevant.
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I wonder if a post purge control and an oil valve would help.
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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What do those do, please?
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It usually means an up grade to the burner primary control. This cuts the oil off after the boiler reaches a high limit or the thermostat is satisficed but it leaves the burner fan running for a short period of time to evacuate the exhaust gases. The post purge time is usually adjustable. Depending on the age of your boiler these might already be components on your burner.
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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OK, I made an appointment to get the damper installed next week. I'm probably going to start heating with wood until then.
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Google AI just told me you're supposed to get your oil furnace chimney cleaned once a year. Is that true? I've actually never had mine cleaned, and no one has ever told me I should. I've lived in this house for 30 years.
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I've never had my chimney cleaned either. Never needed to. It doesn't get dirty because the oil burner and boiler are running clean and making no smoke or soot. A fireplace or wood stove chimney might require frequent cleaning but I never see any oil chimneys require cleaning unless something went terribly wrong with the combustion. The chimney should be inspected every few years to make sure the lining and masonry is in good shape.
That's an interesting description of the how the house is located by a hill with tall trees nearby. I'm wondering if that may be causing a back draft somehow. Is the top of the chimney above 3' taller than the peak of the roof? It should be.
For what it's worth every Smith series 8 boiler I have seen all have had barometric dampers installed. In my experience most oil fired boilers and furnaces need them to keep draft low enough for stable combustion. Unless it's something like an Energy Kinetics boiler that should never have one installed.
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SuperTech, yes, the top of the chimney is 3' above the top of the roof. Thanks for your observations about the Smith boiler! I fired up the woodstove this morning. That also allows me to open two windows on the first floor for fresh air. The thermostat is 15' from the woodstove so the furnace shouldn't come on all day. It's set at 50 for night. I'm thinking that if I smell smoke with this setup, it might mean a dirty chimney. So far so good, though.
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