Why does Gorton not make adjustable rad vents?
I was just perusing the available rad vents, since everyone craps on MoM. The Gortons looks like it would be easy to make like the MoM with replaceable orifices, yet they don't. At $36 a pop they're too expensive to play around with! Obviously the Jacobus patents are long gone, there's Chicom clones in the HD, so why stick with this? The temptation to try and mod one is strong, but I'm fearful that metal particles from drilling and tapping it would mess with the guts, even if I blew it out with air afterwards.
It's funny that the pic on Supplyhouse is an obviously used one!
Comments
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Um… why doesn't Harley make pickup trucks?
They've got a known, proven, product, they can make enough of them to keep the business in operation… why go compete is someone else's pasture?
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
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Cmon, that's hardly a fair comparison. We're talking about a minor modification to the shell, not a completely different product.
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Large companies tend to stick with what currently works. Very few think outside the box and spend significant funds o startup a new product when the existing one makes plenty of money for them.
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I don't crap on MoM
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el2 -
Cynically, I wonder if it’s so you’ll have to buy more when you don’t get your system balanced on the first try.
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I think it's better for them all around to do it their way. The trades - by far their biggest customer - are protected, the supplier places a bigger order and stocks more, they are less prone to meddling by customers and tenants.
The top outlet also clogs more easily with dust.
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That appears to be the answer.
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Really. Me neither. A fine little vent.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.1 -
I've yet to see an adjustable, steam radiator air vent that held up for decades & didn't leak, spit, fall apart. In the early days, I too installed what my supplier carried: Dole, Maid of Mist, Norca, Heattimer. All disappointed after a while. The brilliant Noel Murdough (RIP) from the great State of New Hampshire got me on to Gortons.
I'm fact, I remember him bringing over the first Gorton #2 I ever held in my hand on a Saturday. It was a seminal moment..career changing.
When you're spec'ing & installing tens of thousands of a particular product per year, it BETTER perform. Do I get a few bad ones here & there? Of course, but not very often. That is my proving ground . Mad Dog
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All that can be true, and still not explain why they couldn't simply copy the simple MoM orifice system on their dependable body. It's just a freaking hole!
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Probably because they don't have to. Their market is professional installers, who know which size they want to install on which radiator.
The majority of amateur plumbers, unlicensed hacks and homeowners simply buy the cheapest thing Home Depot sells. They can't compete for that market, so why try?
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MoM isn’t the cheapest thing HD sells, Ed.
The real question is why did they copy Maid O Mists cool dual 1/2”-3/4 fitting when they copied the #1, but they didn’t use it on the #2?
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el1 -
@ethicalpaul why do you think that Gorton has copied Maid O Mists vents? There is a Gorton catalog from 1926 in the Heating Museum part of this website site that shows a vent that looks like what they make today. Maid O Mist on their website states they been in business since 1932. They both probably licensed Jacobus’s patents.
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I just bought the Gorton vents I thought I needed with a few extra different sizes so I could mix them as needed. At one point I decided I wanted to try C's on two radiators, so I bought those.
Why they don't make swappable orifices is likely just because they never have and they don't see a reason to pay money to change the product. I suspect none of these companies see any reason to invest on modifications at this point unfortunately.
And with all of the steam systems being torn out because of a mixture of reasons, that isn't going to change.Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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If you want a Maid O Mist vent, buy one. If you want a Gorton, buy one. If you want a Ford, drive one. If you want a Chevy, drive one. If you want a Bud, drink one. If you want a Coors, drink one.
C'mon man. Fortunately in this country there are choices out there for you.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England4 -
Jacobus is Maid O Mist
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
Ok ill chime in.
I'm guessing Gorton has made a list of standards that they choose to abide by. Not offering a MoM style is not one of there choices because there standards are to not do that.
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Wait…..
If you want a MOM vent buy one, if you want a Gorton vent buy one.
But if you want to drive a Ford or Chevy, you don't have to buy it first?
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Not in Chicago. 🤣
(1000 carjackings a year)
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.1 -
But to flog the automotive comparison, it would be like GM refusing to add intermittent wipers like Ford, because it's not in their standards. The evolution of cars and most product sectors involves adaptation or innovation, and then proliferation of the features that obviously are improvements, like pedal accelerators or battery starting in the dawn of the automotive age. To me, the vent with a non-replaceable port is like a having fixed temp thermostats, and having to replace the whole thing to change the setpoint. Replaceable ports or adjustability is an obvious improvement, but what do I know.
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This is simple. Gorton has a phone, Call them and ask why and let us know.
1-908-276-1323
https://www.gorton-valves.com/home
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There would be investment cost, additional assembly labor and and one additional part number that they likely can't make a business case for. There is certainly a benefit for non-adjustable vents in virtually any apartment building or anywhere you don't want any tampering. Adjustables have a place as well but usually more in spot applications or homeowner purchases where they fit their unique application better. Smaller market with low priced competition.
Depending upon who you get on the phone I suspect the answer would be , "we don't, because…well…we just don't."
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No doubt why innovations like TRVs come from other companies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Last time I went to Legendary Peter Luger Steakhouse in Brooklyn, they only had steak, burgers & Salmon. They didn't have chicken. I think they should have chicken AND Veggie Burgers while they're at it! Mad Dog
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Veggie burgers?
Hmmm.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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And so parties with people who are "no fish" vegetarians take their business elsewhere. A lot of people think Luger's is antiquated anyway.
But by me refusing to make adjustable vents is more like if Luger's refused to cook a steak well done. Some customers preferences vary within the same product. It's not like they're being asked to make faucet shutoffs as well as steam valves.
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but they can have lower costs because they don’t have to make a whole vent of each size, they can make a bunch of vents that can be any size with the addition of a small part
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el1 -
Buy a Gorton. Cover the hole with aluminum tape. Drill whatever size hole you want. Presto. You now have the adjustment feature
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NO !
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Did you not read the part in my OP where I said I was reluctant to drill for fear of metal chips screwing up the interior float and shutoff mechanisms?
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No need to drill the vent. Drill some aluminum tape. Then cover the hole in the vent. Use a Gorton #D.
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Actually, that sounds like a reasonable direction. I wouldn't use tape, I'd ream an aluminum tube to a nice tight fit, and then drill five holes around its perimeter.
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It would still be increased cost because 1) they would still want to make the fixed orifice model for reasons aforementioned and 2) although non-orificed units could be inventoried unpackaged easily enough it would require costly labor to match them to the correct orifice and install it before shipment (cheap enough in China but certainly not here in the US).
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Drilling aluminum tape isn't going to make chips. You could even poke a hole with a pin.
Also rumor on the streets is the floats don't actually float.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Apples to oranges Jellco....Cooking time on a Steak versus asking a manufacturer to retool the assembly line, machines?? Why don't you write the President of Gorton in Cranford NJ a letter and give me a piece of your mind! Just curious?? What kind of sales volume could you personally guarantee him to make it worth their while? Mad Dog
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