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“Height” of modern radiator valves vs old?

bipbap
bipbap Member Posts: 225
edited February 6 in Strictly Steam

Every time my plumber has come out to replace an original old radiator valve, he ends up having to raise up both sides of the radiator with 1/2-1” tall wood slats to account for the new valve height.

Is this normal or is there different options in replacement valves which could avoid the need for wooden lifts? He’s probably just getting the new valves from a big box store so maybe there are more options at a plumbing supply which could avoid the need for these wood lifts?

He told me the new valves are sized different from the old fashioned ones so the wooden lifts are needed.

It works fine but just looks crappy.

Oh and to be clear, with the old valves the radiators used to just sit directly on the floor with no need for risers except maybe something small under one side to add pitch.

Comments

  • It looks as though he didn’t purchase the correct size radiator valve although the nipples going into the radiator looks much smaller.
    Can you take another picture further to the right and closer to the radiator that shows the pipe going into to the radiator. And another picture of a radiator valve that has not been altered.

    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    delcrossvmattmia2
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,918

    Why did he put a 1" extension on the riser to have to raise the rad 1" ?

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • bipbap
    bipbap Member Posts: 225
    edited February 6

    I don’t know.

    I think those are 5/8” planks of flooring under there so with two of them stacked it’s raised up 1 1/4” and then he added a 1” extension.

    Maybe he thought 1/4” wasn’t enough room to play with so he decided to add an extension? Does that make sense?

  • bipbap
    bipbap Member Posts: 225

    This is a photo of the old one that’s leaking now…

  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,918
    edited February 6

    I think if he got the correct fittings and valve it should go together.

    You also could repack the old valve and use that.

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
    CLamb
  • bipbap
    bipbap Member Posts: 225

    How reliable is repacking it vs using a new one?

  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,918

    Repacking is fully reliable if the valve seat is in good shape.

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • bipbap
    bipbap Member Posts: 225

    ok thanks

    and lastly though, is there any reason a modern valve wouldn’t be a clean swap size-wise for an older one?

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 11,780

    Most valves that are different manufactures or series are slightly different dimensions. If you replace the valve you are likely to need to make some adjustments. Regasketing the old valve eliminates this problem.

    Long Beach Eddelcrossv
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,309

    It might be because the new valve was actually shorter than the old one, so he had to install the extension which then made the new valve too high so then he put wood under the radiator.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    EBEBRATT-EdSTEAM DOCTORJells
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,918
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
    Long Beach Ed
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,309

    I can't blame him too much, I too have found that new valves are shorter than old ones.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    EBEBRATT-Ed
  • Grallert
    Grallert Member Posts: 911

    It really looks like he got a 1 1/4 valve and had to adapt it to an 1 1/2 riser. Even if there was no alternative I hope he or someone is coming back to replace those flooring pieces.

    Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver

    LRCCBJ
  • bipbap
    bipbap Member Posts: 225

    yeah I guess that comes back to my original thought- if he had looked around, would it have been possible to find a modern valve that matched the dimensions of the old one?

    Like was a straight swap even possible to find or is there no manufacturer of modern valves with the same dims? I’m just not familiar how many variations of a certain valve are made.

    CLamb
  • RTW
    RTW Member Posts: 192

    Just an observation, but the Original poster could have just "repacked " the original valve as previously suggested and not have what looks like a Practical Joke Installation - smh Sadly, I doubt the plumber left the old valve behind?

    Regards,

    RTW

  • bipbap
    bipbap Member Posts: 225

    yeah I wish I knew- those valves are long gone….

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 11,780

    Do you still have the old valve? As long as the spud isn't trashed you can just rebuild it and put it back on.

  • Grallert
    Grallert Member Posts: 911

    So the complete dimensions meaning the height of the body and the length of the body going to be slightly different than the original valve but usually within working range. The pipe dimensions are going to be the same, in other words a 1 1/2 pipe is an 1 1/2 pipe no matter the vintage. With a bit of thought and some work that radiator should have made right up to the system with out having to go through all those contortions.

    Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver

    delcrossv
  • AdmiralYoda
    AdmiralYoda Member Posts: 713

    He used the wrong valve. They come in every size from 1/2" to 2" and in angle (what you have) and straight. He could have made this work without raising the radiator.

    Here is the valve he probably should have used, assuming that is a 1-1/2" supply.

    Here are the dimensions. I bet if you compare it to your old one it is close enough to call exact.

    Grallertdelcrossv
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,638
    edited February 6

    It's always easy to criticize a man's work, and I do agree that this is a shabby job. We see lots of them. But we also understand that many customers don't want to pay for good work.

    A tradesman can rebuild an old valve, and he can provide a new proper valve. Or he can install what's on the truck. What does the customer want and what will the customer pay to do?

    We have customers who specify American-made, nickel-plated radiator valves, and we supply them. And we don't leave tool marks on them. I suspect our work costs a lot more than the work you see here. If a customer wants his radiator on a pile of scrap flooring with an Amazon valve that's the wrong size, we tell them to call a handyman.

    Customers have choices and choices are good.

    GrallertdelcrossvLRCCBJAlan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,918

    @Long Beach Ed Ooh! Who makes nickel plated steam radiator valves? 😍

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,638
    edited February 6

    We either have brass ones plated or we look for old stock. Apollo made a few runs on special order many years ago.

    delcrossv
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 11,780
    edited February 6

    I think castrads makes them too, granted at castrads prices—actually looking at their web site they're pretty reasonable for something that specialized.

    Or you could just paint them.

    delcrossv
  • bipbap
    bipbap Member Posts: 225

    Yes for sure this was no steam pro, it was an after hours plumber. I know I wasn’t paying a lot for this work so was really just wondering if he was accurate in saying this was the only solution.

    If it bugs me, it’s good to know I can perhaps swap it out in the future to lower it back down.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 17,233
    edited February 7

    Don't pick on the plumber too much. But he could have done a better job.

    I have been in that spot myself and replaced a valve on the second floor of a school and it was a 2-pipe system so I had to raise the rad and recipe both ends and the piping under the floor had no movement

    The valve I had was short compared to the old one. The old valve was corroded from leaking for eons.

    So the rad had to go up.

    In my case the rad was covered by a radiator enclosure so the blocking couldn't be seen.

    Now if you want to pay your plumber to drive around or get on the phone with every supply house in the city your going to pay for that

    There are no standards in valve dimensions, just like steam traps they are all different

    If you install a new valve and it is shorter than the old valve you only have 2 choices. Raise the pipe. If you cant raise the pipe than the radiator has to go up on blocks and you make up the height difference up with a coupling or a male x female coupling

    We all know most of the new valve are more cheaply made and are different dimensions than the old valves. In addition some are more for hot water than they are for steam.

    That being said he could have used something more attractive to set the rads on

    Get some wood that matches your floorboards and stain it to match . You can easily pull out what is there and replace it

    Long Beach Ed
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,638
    edited February 7

    There are iron pedestals made that can raise a radiator. Two-inch size is still sold by Oswald Supply. At one time, they were available in inch increments.

    They are 200 times the cost of wood blocks but look really cool.

    "Timeless design"

  • Jells
    Jells Member Posts: 618

    I took a deep dive trying to find valves of the proper height to replace mine, and struck out. And I cut my old ones off rather than start heaving on the 100+ year old piping and finding out what breaks. So rebuilding them isn't an option. What makes it even more fun is previous owners who laid hardwood simply drilled holes in it for the rad feet! It amazes me that after so much time no one has invented a vertically adjustable valve, perhaps something like a copper compression fitting, or 2" of non-tapering F thread on the valve and matching M on an adapter.

    I've cut feet, and it's a PITA. I've also turned custom 2" gray PVC riser disks that look a **** of a lot better than random chunks of wood. Note I have the same extension, I would have had to cut a LOT off the feet to make this work without.

    Long Beach Ed
  • bipbap
    bipbap Member Posts: 225

    Wow that definitely looks a heck of a lot nicer. How tall are those riser disks?

  • Jells
    Jells Member Posts: 618

    I don't recall precisely, like 3/8 of an inch. You could probably achieve something close with a 2-in hole saw & a stack of various thickness plywood. Create the thickness you need, stack and glue them together, and then sand & paint it.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 17,233

    That works but I see nothing wrong with a couple of hardwood strips stained to match the floor

  • Jells
    Jells Member Posts: 618

    I can see that, but that wasn't what we saw in the OP picture! I had one small rad where I made a nice wooden box for it to stand on, painted the same color as the trim.

    Then of course there is this classic if you have the room to push the radiator over, the 45 to 45 ell. In this case with an extra vent because it's at the top of the run.

  • RTW
    RTW Member Posts: 192

    No complaints where the vent is in the above photo, and believe it promotes steam coming sooner to that radiator. However, it should be on an antler

    I did this on radiator furthest away and it worked

    All the best,

    RTW