Smoke smell in house with oil boiler
I have an appointment three days from now to get my oil boiler cleaned. It's about 15 years old. It hasn't been cleaned for two years (one of those years I heated with wood a lot) and there's a smoke smell in the house—smoke, not oil. When it was cleaned two years ago I reported the same problem and two technicians couldn't find any cause. The cleaning fixed the problem, until recently.
There is no visible smoke in the house. On a scale of 1 to 10, the strength of the smell is about a 4 to my nose, enough to be pretty irritating. The fire department did a carbon monoxide test and there was none.
Problem: the outside temperature is between 15 Fahrenheit during the day and minus 5 at night, so I can't really open a window for fresh air.
QUESTION: Is there anything I can do to improve air quality in the house while waiting for the technician?
What I already tried that didn't work: Turned on bathroom and kitchen fans (I assume that will pull more smoke up from the basement); sealed bottom of door at top of basement stairs (smoke smell seems to be seeping up around each radiator).
Comments
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I highly recommend you order at least two low-level CO detectors. I assume you have detectors in they are not low level.
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Have a chimney sweep inspect your chimney. It may be partially obstructed with dead birds or critters. If you don't have a chimney cap to keep the birds out, you might want to have one installed.
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You mention that you burn wood, at least sometimes. The smell from a wood fire, or one which has almost gone out, is distinctive. So, for that matter, is the smell of diesel exhaust from an oil burning boiler.
So…
Which is it that you are smelling? The two are really very different, although it is common enough to refer to both as "smoke". More to the point, the source of the two and the causes are completely different. So we really need to know.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
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Are you using the same chimney for wood and oil ?
By turning on the Bathroom and Kitchen fans you »»MAY «« be creating negative Pressure on your home which CAN create negative pressure on your exhaust….
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I'm sure the technician will check this. I'm asking how to improve air quality over the next couple of days while waiting for the technician.
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No. They're two different chimneys.
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I haven't burned any wood this season, and the woodstove is clean. It's not woodsmoke I'm smelling. Nor is it oil. It's smoke, like the product of combustion. It's clearly rising from the basement. It collects most strongly at the top of the basement stairs and around the radiators.
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So there's likely nothing you can do short of turning the boiler off. That doesn't sound like a good option. It sounds like a combustion/Ignition issue which is not DIY. Or a venting issue and turning off the kitchen and bathroom exhausts might help with that. Can you get an emergency service?
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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It's very difficult right now to get ANY type of service. I contacted the guy who's coming in two days way back in November! If it gets really bad I could turn off the boiler and heat with wood, but that would be labor intensive as the wood is outside . . . in the cold . . . only partially split. I'm not running the fans now. The last time this happened a regular annual cleaning solved it. I learned my lesson and will get that done in the summer from now on.
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I found one solution that worked. I stuffed toiled paper around the hole in the floor where the radiator pipe enters my bedroom on the second floor, and I shut the door. That gave me better air quality at night. During the day I moved my work station as far as possible from the furnace and radiators and that helped too. 12 more hours and the furnace cleaner will be here. That is, I hope and pray he will be here. I'll report back on whether a cleaning cures the problem or some other cause is discovered.
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Well, the cleaning didn't cure the problem, so on to Plan B. The technician said the boiler is in very good condition, as is the flue pipe (replaced one year ago). He said the boiler was fairly clean before he cleaned it. The only thing the technician could think of that might be causing the odor is the lack of a liner in the interior chimney. The last two technicians who cleaned the boiler also could not find any cause of the smoke, although one said he could smell it. So three people have confirmed the good condition of the boiler, and the chimney is clear.
There is NO visible smoke in the basement or the house.
This is a 1930 house that I want to sell as soon as I can find or build another house, which could take up to a year due to the low inventory of houses and land on the market. Because I plan to move, I don’t want to invest in a chimney liner. That’s not feasible for me financially. This is an old house in moderately good condition to be sold as is. Plus there’s no way of knowing for sure that the chimney is causing the problem.
I’m thinking of three strategies to improve the air quality in the house:
(1) Seal all holes that could be allowing smoke to rise up from the basement, including the holes in the floor around the radiator pipes. That did seem to help in the one room where I did it. I would use spray foam for this.
(2) Find some way to ventilate the basement. This is difficult in the winter. Normally the temperature in the basement stays a steady 45 degrees F with everything closed up. Currently the outside temperature is about 25 F during the day and zero at night. I’m thinking that having two separate air entries at opposite ends of the basement would help with air flow? There is already a 1.5” hole drilled in the basement door to the exterior (for a hose exit). There is a foam sheet covering a window at the opposite end that I could open a crack.
(3) Some kind of air purifier for my home office, where I spend most of the day.
I’m wondering what you think of these ideas and if you have any others. I know the first reaction is probably going to be “You need a chimney liner.” See above for why that’s not the right solution. Thanks for your help!
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what are the combustion analyzer #’s?
Manometer readings of the boiler room?
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Not available at this time. They were good at the last cleaning.
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Check your state's real estate disclosure laws. Many states require you to disclose defects that affect the property's value, even more require you to disclose known safety issues. Sealing things up to hide the smell is basically leaving evidence of your knowledge. Plus you've had technicians out to look at the issue.
Doesn't mean you can't sell it, but it might make more sense to fix it as that kind of disclosure is likely going to hold up a sale until it can be fixed on your dime at time of sale.
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My intent is not to hide a flaw in my home. My goal is to improve my current air quality.
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Well, they're not good now. The boiler and burner were just serviced, correct? Where's the combustion report? Smoke test results? Draft? Without it, we're doing something into the wind that I'm not allowed to write what we're doing. But we're doing it.
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Are you sure there is not a downdraft in the chimney that serves the wood boiler? If that chimney is acting as a vent and air is being drawn through it into the basement, you will likely smell creosote.
Open a basement window and see if you notice any changes/improvement.
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good luck!
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I have an oil boiler and a woodstove. They have separate chimneys. I'm positive the odor is associated with the oil boiler and coming up from the basement. I will try your suggestion. Should I open just one window in the basement, or two for air flow?
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The technician couldn't do the combustion test because the battery in whatever tool you use for that was too cold (left in truck overnight in below zero weather). He's going to finish the testing this week. It's nice that you want to get to the real root of the problem, but my question for the moment was about sealing holes around pipes etc. for a temporary solution. It could take weeks or months to discover the cause of the problem. I need a solution now because I work at home all day.
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What make and model boiler and burner?
Testo doesn't like the cold. Was his smoke gun frozen?
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A real technician that actually wanted to use his analyzer would have brought it into the basement when they first got there! Not leave it in the truck until the end and tell you it was too cold.
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Sealing the holes around the pipes might help, can't hurt. Well likely won't hurt.
Ventilating the cellar won't hurt unless there is a chance of freezing a pipe.
And an air purifier again can't hurt but I doubt it will help.
I might have missed it above , but when in the heating cycle do you notice the smell? During the whole cycle, at the start?
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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Bottom line is that you can not do anything to get rid of the odor until you know the cause of the odor.
Without the proper test results, you can't be given any solid suggestions on resolving your problem.
First you need to identify the odor. is it from combustion of fuel oil? If it smells like the exhaust from a diesel engine, then that is the same smell as oil combustion in your basement. If it does not smell like diesel exhaust then the smell is not from combustion of oil. Could there be any plastic that is leaning against a hot surface near the heating equipment?
Assuming that you know the difference in the odors and it is from combustion, here are the common ways that odor can come into your home.
- The pressure inside your home is lower than the pressure outside your home.
- exhaust fans of any type. Clothes dryer, Kitchen Exhaust, Bathroom exhaust.
- downdraft from the chimney. Are there any tall trees near the top of the chimney? As the tree grows above the chimney top, the tree that was never a problem 20 years ago will continue to grow above the chimney top and may cause air to be forced down a chimney. Removing the tree is the best fix for that
- Is there something different that has nothing to do with the heating system that has changed? I remember when a 4 story building was built next door to my customer with a 3 story home and that building caused the chimney downdraft. The building was higher than the chimney top and it was within 10 feet from the chimney. Major odor and caused high temperature damage to the oil burner melting parts and such.
- Incorrect burner adjustment. Combustion test will let you know that
- There are blockages in the flue passages, vent connector pipe of chimney. The recent service should eliminate that. I have seen some boilers that have cleanout doors that are hidden behind exterior panels. If the technician that did the service didn't clean those places, then you may still have blockages.
- The connector pipe between the chimney and the heater is not properly sealed.
- There is a crack in the heat exchanger and flue gas byproducts are entering the home thru the crack.
There are more ways to get odors from your heater into your home. More testing is needed to find the possible source
What is the brand and model number of your heater?
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
3 - The pressure inside your home is lower than the pressure outside your home.
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CORRECTION: I can smell the odor next to the radiators very soon after the boiler comes on. Standing next to the boiler, there is no odor initially. In fact, the boiler itself doesn't smell at any point as far as I can tell. The technicians were here for about an hour, and they didn't smell anything in the vicinity of the boiler.
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@Hemlock said: "When the boiler first comes on, it takes a while, maybe 10 or 15 minutes, for the smell to make its way upstairs. Standing next to the boiler, there is no odor initially. In fact, the boiler itself doesn't smell at any point as far as I can tell. The technicians were here for about an hour, and they didn't smell anything in the vicinity of the boiler."
This sounds like there is a venting issue. What is the possibility that the chimney is leaking into the basement near the basement ceiling? The initial draft will take the odors outside but as the burner continues to operate, some of the exhaust is exiting the chimney somewhere above your head and finding its way up the basement steps and into the space over your head in the basement to other openings like around the openings for the radiators.
Can you take a picture of the boiler and how it is vented into the chimney?
Did the recent maintenance include vacuum cleaning the base of the chimney?
Is the vent pipe connector extra long?
Is the barometric draft regulator completely closed or does it float open for most of the time that the burner is operating?
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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WHAT MAKE AND MODEL BOILER AND BURNER?
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While I'm working on getting answers to the questions people have asked, does anyone know if the black foam pipe insulation tubes are a safe material for closing the spaces around the radiator pipes where they come up through the floor? What temperature is that type of foam safe for?
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There are TWO types of black foam insulation for pipes. One is low temp the other is for high temps like solar hot water.
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The mfg's. temperature recommendations should come with the pipe on-line or at the point of sale. One high-temp. brand is called Armaflex.
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Sorry for my late response to requests for more info. Technician is coming back tomorrow to do the testing. In the meantime, is there a specific affordable room air purifier you would recommend so I can have one room in my house with good air? Thanks!
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Here are the results of the combustion test: O2 3%. CO2 max 15.7%. Flue gas analysis: Efficiency 81%. 02 6.9%. CO2 10.52%. Stack temp 495F. Tamb 55F. ExAir 49.3%. CO 2 ppm. CO AF 3 ppm. Draft -0.1888 mbar.
The technician increased the oxygen slightly. The flue pipe is clear. The chimney is clear to the top. He cleaned out the soot at the bottom of the chimney. Interestingly, he found a wool hat a couple of feet up the chimney, surely lost by a roof shoveler.
The technician inspected everything he could possibly think of, went all around the basement and house for 1 hour. Neither he nor I could smell any smoke during this inspection. That was the first time in about 3 weeks that there was no smoke smell. It's also the first day in a long time that the daytime temperature has been over 30, allowing me to open a basement window. Right now (6 pm) I do smell smoke a bit, but that could just be on the walls, ceiling, or furniture since the boiler isn't running.
The technician feels strongly that the boiler and the flue pipe are not the cause of the problem. He said the boiler was in surprisingly good shape for its age. I trust him. He was more thorough than previous technicians.
My plan at this point is to finishing caulking all of the holes around the radiator pipes, fill any obvious cracks, vacuum the radiators, and air out the house whenever possible to get rid of residual smoke smell. I realize that caulking can't really seal everything, but it did help in the upstairs bedroom.
More photos tomorrow, I hope.
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Some photos. The flue pipe photo is old; t
he pipe was replaced 1 year ago. I will post the new pipe tomorrow.
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The technician increased the oxygen slightly. The flue pipe is clear. The chimney is clear to the top. He cleaned out the soot at the bottom of the chimney. Interestingly, he found a wool hat a couple of feet up the chimney, surely lost by a roof shoveler.
"he found a wool hat a couple of feet up the chimney" sounds like a Red Flag on how the exhaust from the heater may be backing up into the home. I hope that someone removed the wool hat.
Your combustion numbers Efficiency 81%. 02 6.9%. CO2 10.52%. Stack temp 495F. Tamb 55F. ExAir 49.3%. CO 2 ppm. CO AF 3 ppm. Draft -0.1888 mbar look just right. With that hat gone, I think your odor problem is gone.
The draft seems a little high. If my conversion is correct, -0.1888 is about -0.07" wc. That would translate to about -.0.05" wc over the fire. I believe that HB Smith recommends no more than -0.01"wc over the fire for efficient operation. Did they take an over fire draft? And does your vent connector (smoke pipe) have a Barometric draft control? That Barometric will lower your over fire draft and make it more stable so the air fuel mixture wont change as the chimney draft changes with different weather conditions.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Ed, thank you very much for your detailed comments. I will pass them on to the technician, because I don't know anything about furnaces. The hat was removed but I regret to say that the odor has returned. So it's intermittent.
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Huge clue. You opened a basement window and the smell went away. You need more air getting in to that basement.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
Some more photos
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I wish it were that simple. Right now the basement window is open but the smoke smell rose up to the first floor as soon as the furnace came on.
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EdTheHeaterMan wrote: Did they take an over fire draft? And does your vent connector (smoke pipe) have a Barometric draft control? That Barometric will lower your over fire draft and make it more stable so the air fuel mixture wont change as the chimney draft changes with different weather conditions.
I'm afraid I can't answer those questions for lack of knowledge, although I was present when the technician did the analysis. Maybe the above photos can help regarding the barometric draft control?
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At this point, by process of elimination, I'm leaning toward thinking the problem is the lack of a chimney liner and the age of the chimney (1939). This problem began two years ago. Because two technicians were unable to diagnose it, I solved it by duct taping a baffle to the bottom of the door at the top of the basement stairs. That worked for two years. The problem started getting worse about 3 weeks ago, such that the baffle along is no longer keeping the smoke out of the first floor. I've caulked the holes around most of the radiators, but that hasn't helped in the first-floor rooms. It did help upstairs if the bedroom door is closed. I even caulked some wide cracks between the floor boards on the first floor.
Could the worsening of the problem point to gradual degradation of the chimney mortar?
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