New Crown boilers - updated piping

Also check the manual and make sure it says you can use only one riser on that model boiler. I suspect it will say you can on that small a boiler but you should check that and the pipe sizes against the manual.

That's a tiny main vent. Should be a Gorton #1 minimum.

The piping looks ok based on what we can see as far as configuration goes. The pipe size will have to be checked against the manual.

Vents probably not large enough. Did he skim the boiler?

Looks like they bought the cheapest vents they could find. That one came from Home Depot.

How long are your steam mains, and what pipe size? This determines the vents to use.

I'm not sure about the pipe size for the second boiler but I think it is just something weird about the perspective from the angle of the pictures.

with all that extra dope everywhere it will definitely need skimming a couple times.

What is happening here:

Does the riser from the boiler go in to a tee and the main goes off in 2 directions? what happens at the other ends of the mains? If they join in to a return then that return needs to be below the water line to keep steam from one main from going in to the other main and keeping one of the mains from venting.

No, just the mains, starting at the boilers and ending at the vents.

not the return, that is the pipe with the vent on it. the pipes where the steam supply comes from the boiler and distributes around the building. if there is only one return it should only go in one direction.

I think it is the T at the top of this photo that is being questioned. Are they both mains feeding multiple radiators or is one a takeoff to a single radiator and the other the main that goes around the the whole basement ending at the new vent? Neither situation would be ideal but they should not come back together anywhere above the waterline.

Measure the OD of that pipe going to the new main vent and then check an online schedule 40 pipe chart to see the nominal pipe size. You will want to do the same on the main to answer Steamheads question. For main lengths you can just pace off and it is close enough.

As far as water usage, that problem is likely the result of leaks upstairs on radiator valve stems and unions, and - let me guess - the plumber never looked upstairs. You may want to flood the boiler up past the top of the gauge glass just to make sure it's not leaking in the steam area. Who knows? Maybe the installer threw it off the truck.

The tee connecting the mains of course is bad practice. Each main should be separate takeoff from the header. At least the first one off the header should enter the header at 45-degrees. The use of Chinese malleable fittings instead of cast fittings is indicative of poor workmanship, as is the sloppy application of pipe dope everywhere. This guy couldn't even put down a couple of concrete blocks to get the thing off the ground??

There's no excuse for the use of $5 Home Depot radiator vents on the mains, but it's no surprise considering the overall quality of the work. I'd be remiss to not comment on the unsupported PEX feed line to the boiler. That would fail the most liberal inspection around here.

I would request that this installer pipe each main supply separately from the header, (the first at 45-degrees to the header), replace the PEX with rigid pipe or properly support it, and replace the vents with (at least) a Hoffman or preferably a Gorton main vent as he was contracted to provide.

there is a different issue here. either the mains are improperly tied together at the other end or there is nowhere for the condensate to return for one of the mains. this issue was created by whoever split up the floors in to 2 boilers.

The "improperly tied together" supposition is also referring to what is or may be happening at the far end of the mains. We are hoping that the two mains do not join each other at their far end resulting in only the single main extension (return) shown back at the boiler with the main vent attached. IF everything is heating fine and balanced then perhaps we should not worry about this boiler and instead only focus on the water loss of boiler #1. Just for my understanding boiler 1 and boiler 2 are wholly independent, not sharing any piping, right?

It's the combination that makes it unworkable. A teed supply with separate drops to the wet return is balancable. Not easily, but doable. If they're connected at both ends above the waterline, steam will take the easy path.

I'm still confused as to whether:

1. You know what main vent size you needed which requires an estimate of the total mains length and pipe size and:
2. Whether relative to the water loss you went around and did what @ethicalpaul asked in the last thread:
   
   To see if vents are working, you set up a long call for heat, like make the system have to gain like 5 degrees. Then you run around to all the radiators to see if they are filling with steam. That tells you the vent is letting air out like it should.

Then you keep running around to all the radiators until they start to completely fill up with steam all the way to the vent. When steam gets to a vent and makes it "steam hot" the vent should close and not allow any steam to escape. You can hold a spoon in front of the little hole in the vent to see if it's letting out steam.

Also check the valve (note the difference between a steam vent, and the radiator's valve that has a handle on it) to see if it is leaking, hissing, or dripping.

You don't want to see any hissing, fogging of the spoon, or dripping anywhere because you should only be having to add like a gallon per month to these boilers.

No doubt to me if Gorton is spelled out in the quote a Gorton should be installed. I assume based on your boiler size maybe a #1 is enough but perhaps it should be a #2 (much more expensive).

In addition to the fogging on a spoon or mirror just your phones flashlight can help pickup steam release. Just make sure the last section and vent are steam hot and that the boiler is still firing when you pass judgment on the vent.

Did they repipe it after they installed it or is that how they installed it? As I see it they used a cheap vent and didn't fix some issues someone in the past left behind. They didn't do the best job but didn't do an awful job either.

Posted by OP"

"Boiler 2 (the one losing water) was re-piped. Then its old boiler (from the early 70s) died anyway and I had to have the boiler replaced as well. "

"Boiler 1 was simply replaced. When I moved into the house, the boiler was dead on arrival (also from the early 70s)."

My circa 1964 Boiler operates as well as the day it was installed, though I made some improvements adding Main Vents, a better oil burner and balancing the system vents. These newer boilers look tinny to me, with a fraction of the life span of the older cast iron boilers of the past - from everything Ive read on this site. Im just a homeowner, but those Ive spoken with in the heating business say they get a bonus if they talk a customer into replacing an older boiler, notwithstanding it just needs some TLC.

Not sure what you mean by "died" or "dead" that gives no mechanical explanation?

This post is mostly for those with older working boilers to beware and find themselves in this OP situation

All the Best,

RTW