Best Code Protected/Keypad Lockout Thermostat for Single Pipe Steam? (or similar tamper proof)

5horizonsrr · January 4

Hi everyone, excuse the repeat post as I know the topic has come up before, but many old links were bad or models now out of production.

I have a 3 story, 3 family home with a single pipe steam system. (boiler in basement) The thermostat is in the second floor apartment.

I moved out of the 2nd floor and new people moved in this season. The cat and mouse game has begun over the thermostat…

I need to install something that will ensure I have no headaches with the boiler, and that they will stop touching the damn thing. On the existing Honeywell they have accidently set programs and all sorts of other headaches, nevermind cranking it up super high and routinely cooking the poor guy living on the first floor while giving the boiler itself (2 year old Williamson) a workout.

Does anyone have a recommendation? I prefer a code-protected unit so it doesn't look threatening yet they can't get into it. Remote sensor could work, but I believe that would entail a level of wire fishing I don't want to get into. (or maybe I'm wrong) No wifi requirement is ideal…

Thanks in advance! I just need to set something at 70 and know it will stay that way…

Long Beach Ed · January 4

Just about every professional Honeywell thermostat offers provisions for a remote sensor. The sensor can be hidden below the surface of the sheetrock or attached to the underside of a blank switch plate. The thermostat can then be installed in the basement where only you have access.

Another option is a Honeywell thermostat where the top temperature can be limited. These are usually broken off the wall by savage tenants.

I use remote sensor thermostats that are wi-fi controlled remotely so when a tenant calls with a complaint I can adjust the settings from my phone.

ratio · January 4

The Honeywell 8000 series can be locked with an internally generated security code. It can also take a wired remote sensor (or a matrix to average 4). The Honeywell remote sensor, C7189U1005, is surface mount, but the thermistor curve matches the ACI 10K-E1 curve, and those are available in a flat wallplate style (https://www.workaci.com/product/389?v=3587).

Wcurtis · January 4

I have the Honeywell Vison Pro 8000 in my 2-story home and very pleased with its performance. It came with a preprogrammed security code and a maximum temperature can be set if needed.

As an added feature the indoor wireless remote sensors are great and allow sensors to be placed in several rooms to use an Average as the input to the t-stat.

Battery backup for power failures, multiple setback features and t-stat learns how the system responds to calls for heat and adjusts itself (in theory)…this could be exactly what you need and can purchased from Amazon.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/986134/Honeywell-Visionpro-8000.html

Long Beach Ed · January 4

Tekmar wired sensors in several styles are also compatible with the Vision Pro 8000. They work great and you can hide them. You can use several to average the temperature or just put one in a colder room that's not likely to be left with windows open.

I use the ones that fit in a hole in the sheetrock and are plastered over. They've solved my problem for thirty years. I own dozens.

ratio · January 4

The Tekmar thermistor is a 10K type II, it's only a fair match to the Honeywell. 75° to 85° you probably won't see any deviation, but the cooler you get the greater they diverge (warmer too, but not as rapidly). See the attacked PDF.

10k thermistor comparisons.pdf

(The temperature axis is shortened to the usable range for a thermostat. Many thermistors are usable from 30° below to 150° above zero .)

+1 on the various styles of thermistors available, you can nearly always find Just The Right Thing. I go to ACI (https://www.workaci.com/products/temperature) to generate a part number, then order them from the local supply house.

Long Beach Ed · January 4

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1831898#Comment_1831898

Thank you much for that chart and for the information.

5horizonsrr · January 4

Thanks everyone, sounds like the Honeywell 8000 is the answer. I'll set the code and that should be the end of it. A question though: will it work fine without wifi? And do I need to check any special setting for steam, or just "heat"?

Thanks again!

Long Beach Ed · January 4

Follow the set up instructions. Steam usually works best at 1 cycle per hour. Works fine without wifi.

There are several versions of this thermostat. Make sure the one you get has the feature you want. The ones sold in consumer stores like Home Depot have fewer features than those sold in supply houses.

Anytime I had locking thermostats the tenants just ripped them off the wall, shorted out the wires, hung them out the window or iced them. That's how I came to use remote sensors.

ratio · January 4

The only real gotcha is that you can't pick the security number yourself, it's programmed in at the factory. But IMHO if anyone's going to spend the time to google it & find out how the number is generated, they're dedicated enough to do as @Long Beach Ed mentioned.

In any case, you're probably looking for either a model "TH8110R1008" or a "TH8321WF1001". The first needs a wireless gateway for remote access but can use wireless sensors. The second is direct-to-wifi, but can not use wireless sensors (can still use wired sensors, as can the previous model). Here's a cheat sheet I made for our project managers.

Honeywell thermostats.pdf

EdTheHeaterMan · January 4

I have also used the 8000 thermostat with a remote sensor in a rooming house. the first floor apartment was the coldest room in the building so that is where I installed the sensor. the thermostat was installed in the landlords apartment on the first floor.

All the other radiators on the first floor apartment and the individual room radiators on the second and third floor were equipped with TRVs (it is a hot water system). The burners runs until the cold apartment is satisfied. if any other room gets too hot, then the TRV can be adjusted to a cooler setting.

Remote sensor is the way to go.

Wcurtis · January 4

I have mine set to 2 CPH which goes against Honeywell’s recommendation of 1 CPH for steam however after straightening out my main venting I began experimenting (3 was causing rapid cycling and I became concerned but when I went to 2 things smoothed out)

In my opinion and I’m sure some will disagree, but I am trying to balance comfort with economy and the 2 CPH keeps the house warmer and it runs about 20-25 minutes and shuts off, some may debate the increased cycles and it should run longer at each interval.

I have 3 remote sensors and they work great. I have setbacks as well and the t-stat stops the boiler just prior to reaching setpoint (3 sensors in average) to allow the room to go past the desired room temp.

5horizonsrr · January 5

Thanks all. To clarify, I am not going to go with remote sensors and just do a "rip and replace" on the existing unit because I have a pretty good idea of differences, but more importantly signal between floors is terrible with masonry exterior walls, plaster interior etc and I worry they won't sync.

I found a TH8320R1003 at a good price on Amazon - that didn't make your list @ratio - should I return for one of the two models you suggest, or is it just a xxx1008 with the extra capabilities?

I'll start at 1 CPH to see how it does, and ratchet up to 2 if need be

Long Beach Ed · January 5

I'd wire the sensor.

See if the model that arrives from Amazon meets your needs. If not, send it back for one that does.

ratio · January 5

The 8320 is in between the 8110 and 8321. It's missing the aux contacts that the 8321 has, but is multistage. The PDF I posted earlier shows some details on it.

Note that if you want Internet access to that model, you'll need a RedLINK Internet gateway (tet PDF does that as well).

Best Code Protected/Keypad Lockout Thermostat for Single Pipe Steam? (or similar tamper proof)

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