Beckett furnace keeps tripping
Comments
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If that CO detector is a UL listed type it will not alarm until 70 PPM is reached and exceeded for up to 4 hours. Virtually worthless.
Get a Low-Level Non-UL listed CO detector that will alarm at 15 PPM.
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Is it losing prime, or does it fire and run just resetting it?
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The problem we have is inconsistent data. Your original statement was as follows:
If the furnace is running. It will run fine for as long as it wants.
But, now we find, after the change in pump, that it WILL NOT run fine for as long as it wants. It is highly unlikely that a change in pump would make it go from running fine to not being able to run fine. It now "trips". You'll need to explain exactly what it does in more detail and what you did to restart it.
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sometimes you have to reset the primary control switch once, sometimes twice for it to run again after sitting for awhile
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when it starts up, it runs the whole cycle to being the thermostat up to temp. It runs fine the whole cycle never missing a beat. The problem is always after it sits for a while. Say it sits for an hour or more and then the thermostat calls for heat, that’s when it will try to start but not fire. I can always hear it sparking but it doesn’t fire
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Just to confirm:
When it does not fire, you press the reset button on the primary and let it try again?
You may need to press it twice and it finally starts?
When it does start does it sound like it is not firing cleanly…………..can you observe the flame though the access window? Does it clean itself up in 30 seconds or so………….or is it perfect without any roughness or smoke when it does start?
When you say you can always "hear it sparking" is the motor running at that time? You'd need a good ear to hear the spark once the motor starts.
We might be going down the wrong path here.
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yes, I press it once and shut the door. Sometimes it fires and sometimes it doesn’t. If it doesn’t fire the first time I will let it sit and try it again. If it doesn’t fire the second time, I will do the same again. I know that it pumps fuel in so not to do it a lot because it can blow up, but I have checked when it hasn’t fired and there is not much fluid at all. It’s usually right below the nozzle in the little round space the electrodes and nozzle sit in. Like it puked the fluid out because it didn’t have pressure behind it. It always sounds like it fires cleanly and the flame always looks good. Yes, good spark and the motor running. I thankfully have a trained ear from being a mechanic. Once I found out what the spark sounded like I could hear it. I really do believe it’s a fuel issue. Everything else has checked out and that is even when it tripped is when I checked the spark and power to the electrical side of it. I haven’t been there but it has been running all day so I’m hoping I just didn’t bleed it completely when I changed the pump. We will see
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press ONCE after that call your service provider!
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I haven’t been there but it has been running all day so I’m hoping I just didn’t bleed it completely when I changed the pump.
If it has been running "all day" it must have cycled during the day. If it restarted after it shutdown on limit……………you have solved your problem!!
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Sounds like a weak igniter.
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Why would it get "better" on the second or third attempt………….and why wouldn't the chamber be full of oil during the attempts?
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Sounds like he needs to call a professional. I bet you or I could fix this problem in less than an hour if the OP was in one of our areas.
This can be easily solved by a tech who is on site and has the right tools and experience to properly diagnose the problem and ensure the furnace is operating safely reliably and efficiently.
What primary control is on the furnace? I hope it's not some garbage R8184 three wire control with a 45 second trial for ignition and wired up so the ignition components are constantly powered the entire time the burner is running. These controls are 1970s technology and well known to quickly wear out the electrodes and cause premature failure of the ignition transformer or electronic igniter.
A modern primary control like the Carlin 70200 can be setup for 10 second trial for ignition and interrupted ignition, this greatly improves the safety and reliability of the oil burner. The built in diagnostic and troubleshooting features makes solving intermittent problems a lot easier for DIY folks.
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Sounds like he needs to call a professional. I bet you or I could fix this problem in less than an hour if the OP was in one of our areas.
We can easily conclude that "he needs to call a professional" for just about any post on here. I am positive you can fix this problem in less than 30 minutes if you were there.
The challenge, for you or I, is to attempt to solve the problem via wire. It's not always easy and we aren't always successful, but we give it our best shot without risking the safety of the boiler or the individual.
We both know that the "professional" that arrives might not always be "skilled" and will take the H/O for a ride by simply changing parts. We can do better than that…………in many cases…………even if we're 1000 miles away.
The website is titled "Heating Help" for a reason.
BTW, I'd bet $100. that it is an R8184. And, that control could very well be part of the problem.
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it has been running great all day, knock on wood. I just heard it cycle on and off multiple times. I do appreciate everyone’s time. Like I said, I’m skilled in the automotive and bus mechanics, I just didn’t know about a furnace but I’m glad I know the basics now. I appreciate everyone’s input and quickness. The trailer was built in 1980 and it is the primary control you’re talking about I believe. It is the three wire one. Not sure about the 45 sec trial phase but it’s probably at least 30 seconds. I really just need it to work for this winter and then hopefully we’re into a house. I didn’t want to spend a lot of money on it for that reason and for the fact I’m mechanically inclined and wanted to learn. I will keep you all updated. If it is still working by Monday I’d say it’s fixed. Longest it’s went is about 1-1.5 days this year without tripping the reset
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Thanks for the update.
Good to hear.
Hopefully, the pump fixed the issue.
We are a bit limited on what we can accomplish via the internet without the proper gauges and test devices, and we do feel a responsibility not to place you in any danger during these ad-hoc repairs.
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I totally understand that, and I appreciate that. I did test the power on the two wires into the primary control which was 119-120 volts. Then I tested the power out of it on the single wire which goes to the pump motor and ignition transformer and that had the same 119-120 volts. When I tested the power out of the primary on the single wire the furnace did trip and I had power on that wire that goes to the transformer and pump motor so I feel the primary is good
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One small suggestion:
The eye can get contaminated with soot over time. Just use a tissue and clean the eye. Take you one minute. I don't believe it has anything to do with the issue as it does not shutdown after the trial.
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That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
Why would it get "better" after 3 attempts on a one pipe delivery? Is it priming itself? Why did we start chasing flares in the first place? Like all of sudden, after how many years, there's a bad flare somewhere?
And with a .50 nozzle, you're not flooding the chamber on 3 attempts, even if its a 45 second primary. I certainly dont condone it, but it won't cause a smoke show. "Better" is open to interpretation when you're not on site. And from what I see from my couch is it never was a fuel delivery issue. Weak Webster, yeah, but not the cause.
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The only reason why I recommend calling a professional is my concern about the possibility of poor/incomplete combustion and the potential for the system becoming plugged up with soot. A homeowner doesn't have the ability to check combustion and prevent this from happening.
Other than that I really enjoy helping people solve their problems and I find it really satisfying when I can help fix their problems. That's why I am always checking this website.
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My response was based upon your call for a "weak igniter". It doesn't magically resurrect itself for the third attempt.
Who's chasing flares? I specifically doubted it was a flare for the exact point you stated above.
It appears, based upon the unit being functional for the moment, that it was absolutely is a fuel delivery issue.
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I have to tell you a story about soot.
I had a fairly new boiler (self-installed) at one of the rentals. It was a distance away and I found an old guard fuel oil fellow who also did service. He serviced it about one year after it was installed. Did filter, nozzle, electrode check………..etc. "Combustion?? "I can set these by eye perfectly…………I've been doing it for 20 years."
Less than one year later, it shuts down. Turns out to be packed with soot. No airflow. He cleans it thoroughly and starts it up and it runs fine. Doesn't touch the air.
One year later…………..same deal. Packed with soot. He does the same thing again……….still no combustion check.
I finally had enough and brought the analyzer down from CT. CO2 was 13.5!
I have serious doubts that most of them even own a combustion analyzer.
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OF COURSE HE NEEDS A PROFESSIONAL. They all do. I do too.
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it’s been running great since yesterday 12-28 morning. I must’ve not of bled it enough when I installed the new pump
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you’ll be back.
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Don't let the facts confuse you. I realize it might be difficult.
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This guy has a mobile Home furnace. In my experience, there are very few cases where I set up a Miller or Intertherm mobil home furnace with combustion testing equipment. that is because some of them have a concentric exhaust/intake roof jack. Others have the exhaust pipe to Roof Jack pipe in the same room as the blower intake for the ductwork. If you put a hole in that pipe and the screw or patch of tape or other form of sealer falls out, you will be putting that exhaust pipe in the negative pressure zone of the furnace and suck the exhaust fumes into the home.
This is one of the only furnaces that I advocate for setting the flame with an experienced eye for what the flame should look like thru the flame inspection sight opening. Those openings are normally spring loaded to close against a fire proof gasket so exhaust gasses do not find their way into the home. That said, If @mechanic02. can look at the flame after adjusting the pump pressure, look for the lazy orange flame tips that have smokey ends, then add some air until the flame is bright white/yellow with a defined flame edge, then that is the best that any professional would do. There are many flame adjustment videos on youtube.
If you go to the combustion analyzer test route, you better be sure your test port can be properly sealed with something that can't just fall out later in the season. Metal Duct Tape is not the right covering for that test port.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Thank you all. It is still running great. No trips. It would usually trip twice to three times between 9 pm and 7 am and then sometimes during the day. Like I said, I only need it for this winter and then it will be torn down most likely. I’m taking the furnace burner with me though lol
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Like I said, I only need it for this winter and then it will be torn down most likely.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard that line.
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@pecmsg, If you knew about the crap heating systems I installed in my home that I have since given to my son. In 1983 when I purchased that home it was a temporary stepping stone home, until I could afford a bigger, better one. So I tested an Apollo Hydro Heat with 2 air handlers. I replaced the water heater with an oil fired water heater, then there was a 3 Ton Whirlpool condensing unit left over from a Floor Plan deal I made with RE Michel. I connected it to the two air handlers and added high pressure solenoid to those 1.5 ton and 2 Ton air handlers. eventually all that stuff failed and since I don't see that home leaving the family anytime soon, My son is installing variable speed condensing units with variable speed air handlers with Hydro coils that are properly designed for that use.
39 years later It now has a Buderus CI oil fired boiler that has lasted about 30 years and I expect it to last at least 20 more years. The master bedroom has had an addition with radiant floor heat installed.
"So If you can just make it last for another year I plan on …." are famous last words for many a heating system.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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