Beckett furnace keeps tripping
Hi, I’m new here but have read a lot and decided it was time to creat an account. I am a head mechanic and am very knowledgeable in mechanics so I’d like to tackle this myself. My Beckett trailer furnace keeps tripping. It hasn’t had a service in a few years so I replaced the filter at the tank, replaced the nozzle, and cleaned the carbon around the fins that are part of the furnace by the nozzle. There wasn’t much. I also added a treatment to the tank. The tank is an outside tank running red kerosene. The line gradually ascends then makes a turn to go straight through the floor into the pump. It is a single line system. I tested the power to the primary control, and then out of the primary control to the pump motor and transformer while it tripped so I know they’re good. I tested the spark off the transformer and it was good. I cleaned and adjusted the electrodes and I have new ones coming today for it so I can complete the service and know that is all set. It has a Webster pump which I have read do not have strainers or else I was gonna replace that strainer for the service. After cleaning and adjusting the electrodes it wouldn’t fire after two resets so I removed them again to check to see if I adjusted them right and saw barely any fuel in the furnace when I know it should’ve been spraying when I reset it and it didn’t fire. The little fuel I did see was right below the nozzle and not in the burner like it just puked it out instead of spraying it. I tried to get fuel out of the small line from the pump to the nozzle and nothing came out when I ran the furnace. I then cracked open the bleeder and heard kind of a gurgling. I let that noise go away and then ran the furnace again and I finally got fluid out of the bleeder hose. It came out foamy at first but then after came out regularly. I checked the whole line to see if I saw any leaks and read that it doesn’t have to be leaking fluid to suck air. I checked all connections with wrenches and they were all tight. It has a full tank of fuel also. I’m gonna replace the electrodes tonight but have no idea after that if it keeps tripping. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long story but I wanted to include everything. Thank you all!
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I then cracked open the bleeder and heard kind of a gurgling. I let that noise go away and then ran the furnace again
You can stop right there. You MUST have a steady flow of clean fuel, without any trace of air, flowing from the bleeder if you have any hope of getting a one pipe system to run.
Any chance you have the fuel gelling due to low temps?
Change the filter at the burner?
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You could have a suction line leak from the tank to the burner pump. All those fitting must be flare or pipe fittings made up tight. Could be oil jelling as well. If you not getting oil to the burner that is 100% air free the burner can't work.
Someone will recommend a tiger loop. Is the oil level in the tank when the tank is low on oil above or below the burner pump?
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I don’t believe it is. If the furnace is running. It will run fine for as long as it wants. It’s when it sits and I’m assuming the fuel bleeds down is when it will trip. If it runs continuously or starts back up shortly after it shut off it runs fine.
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it connects at the filter on the tank, then shortly in the crawl space there is a connection, and then from there to the pump it is all one piece. Not many connections. I believe the whole tank even when full is below the pump
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should I of had fuel instantly when I bled it from the line on the pump to the nozzle even after it sitting for a few minutes while I worked on the electrodes?
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Well, this is where you need gauges. I suspect the fuel pump is leaking slightly. It needs to hold very close to the set pressure at shutdown. Without gauges, you'd have throw a pump at it and hope.
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Yes.
Recheck all the flair and pipe connection.
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How do I do that? I already checked them off for tightness and they were all very tight.
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One by One. If airs getting in something is loose.
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do I just loosen, check and re tighten? Thank you all for the quick responses
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Flairs
Disassemble, make sure theres no cracks in the flair and nut. A little oil between the nut and flair also a little on the flair face and retighten.
Pipe threads same
Diassemble, clean the threads and a high-quality pipe dope rated for oil. No Teflon!
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so same as brake lines with automotive. Except they leak fluid and are easy to find! Haha. I will do that and recheck. Thank you! If it still does it after then most likely it’s the pump I’m assuming?
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It has a full tank of fuel also.
To try to save you some time:
If the level of the fuel (in the tank) is above the burner, it is highly unlikely (nearly impossible) for one of your flares to be marginal and admit air. Furthermore, flare fittings don't suddenly develop an air leak unless somebody was getting into the system and opened or disturbed them.
Now if the fuel in the tank (at the top) is below the burner and the pump must lift…………….now all the flares need to be PERFECT or they will draw a tiny bit of air and the one pipe burner won't run for long.
I seriously doubt that the flares are your issue. If they were, the burner wouldn't run for more than 2-3 minutes (if that). Yours runs continuously once you get it started.
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that makes sense. Are you thinking it’s the pump? Also, if it is the pump, would that run fine the whole time until it shuts off like mine? I’d think if the pump was bad then it would shut off during the cycle. I have a fuel strainer I could put in but read Webster don’t use them
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I was thinking the pump two hours ago…………………😉
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It's a five minute check if you have a fuel pump gauge.
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The pump needs to maintain pressure when it shuts down. If the pump is at 100 psi, it cannot drop below 80psi at shutdown. If it does, then it's done. It will be difficult to start the next cycle.
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haha, I kinda hope it is the pump so I can be done with this and feel victory! I have an automotive fuel gauge. I will look up how to test it and see what I can do. Thanks so much!
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You won't be able to perform the test with an automotive fuel gauge. The unit must be running and then shutdown while you watch the gauge. It must be on the high pressure line on the pump output.
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is the high pressure line the one that goes from the pump to the nozzle? I picked up my electrodes and purchased a pump. Not sure if I’ll throw it in or try to get a gauge first. Why can’t I use an automotive gauge?
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You could have a bad pump. You could have a pump coupling slipping.
But the most likely problem is a leaking or cracked flare or a leaking pipe fitting. A burner that loses it's prime when sitting and when it gets its prime it runs fine is a classic sign of a suction leak.
Make sure to check any gaskets on the oil filter including on the bleeder fittings as they are prone to crack and leak.
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When you replaced the oil filter at the tank, unless you completely filled the canister with fresh fuel, and bled the air from the little 5/16 hex screw on top, then the burner would of course need to be primed to rid the line of air. If everything was working before the "maintenance", then it's a self inflicted wound.
How old is the furnace? Miller/Nordyne? I don't believe I've ever seen a Webster pump on a downflow furnace.
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If you can arrange the fitting required to get the gauge on the high pressure line that goes from the pump to the nozzle, then you can use it. Start the burner………….the gauge will rise to a typical 100 psi. Run it for about two minutes then shut it down and watch the gauge. It cannot drop by more than 20 psi and hold there. If it falls further, you found the issue.
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the problem was there before the filter change. I guess it’s been going on for a few years off and on but since last year it’s been pretty constant. I’m not sure on the furnace but the burner is a Beckett. I can check the flares. I will check the pressure
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It is extraordinarily difficult to "check the flares" by looking at them. I tried it for over four months. Still they leaked. Do yourself a favor and rig up a clear plastic tube from the bleeder to a relatively large tank (I like a 5 gallon water jug). Start the burner, crack the bleeder, and look for air in that clear tube. Run it for at least 10 minutes. If there is air due to a bad flare, you will absolutely see it and it will not go away. If there is no air, you won't see anything but fuel color. You won't even believe it is flowing.
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thank you, I will do that. I will try a few things and check back with everyone tomorrow. I appreciate everyone’s time, quick responses, and knowledge!
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I can check the flares.
This is easier said than done.
The typical $50 flare tool won't cut it. I had to procure a "Yellow Jacket" to be absolutely sure that the torque spec was accurate and that the cone on the flaring tool did not disfigure the tube.
Additionally, it is very easy to leave a tiny burr near the OD of the tube. This is caused by the failure to ream the inside of the tube PERFECTLY before flaring. That small raised burr will cause a suction leak. Guaranteed. I resorted to using a Dremel on the inside of the tube because reaming was not consistent.
Finally, if you overtorque the fitting when you assemble, you will crush the copper and cause a suction leak. Very easy to do.
I don't wish to call it an "art" but it is close if you absolutely want to eliminate any possibility of a suction leak on the first go.
Most technicians will not be successful and simply resort to a Tiger Loop device to manage the air if it is a one pipe system with lift.
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Is the oil line off the top or bottom of the tank? Do you have a vacuum gauge?
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it’s off the bottom and I believe I do
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I replaced the electrodes and the old ones were very eaten up at the ends. The new ones had about 1/8” more of the metal rod on each. It doesn’t trip as much but still does.
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I think I got it figured out. I tested pressure and it only went to 82psi. When I shut it off it went to 60psi. I let it sit for around 13 minutes and it went down to 55 psi. Not sure if I can adjust the pressure or if I should change the pump. I do have a brand new pump but haven’t swapped it incase I don’t need it and can return it. I ended up getting a brake fitting, re threaded the end to fit my gauge adapter and then put a copper washer in between the brake fitting and fuel pressure adapter to get it to seal. It worked great!
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Ok....if that gauge is actually reading the correct pressure then you have a major problem. No oil burner ever made was designed to operate on such low oil pump pressure. The lowest I have seen is 100 PSI. I don't recommend installing a new oil pump because any replacement oil pump will be set at 100 PSI out of the box. A 20% increase in oil pressure will change the air/fuel ratio and without using a digital combustion analyzer you won't be able to make sure the burner isn't creating excessive carbon monoxide and soot causing and becoming unsafe to operate.
There's a good chance that the burner is locking out because the combustion is not right. An improper air/fuel ratio will cause the cad cell ohms to be really high and the primary control will do its job and shut the burner off on a safety lockout.
It's probably a good idea to get a professional involved who can check the combustion, cad cell resistance, oil pump pressure, draft, suction line vacuum and everything else required to ensure the burner is operating safely, reliably and efficiently as possible. This really is not something that should be a DIY project for a homeowner without the tools, knowledge and experience to do the job correctly.
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I adjusted the pressure to 100 and when it shut off it went down to 82 instantly. After 10 minutes it went down to 65. What if I adjusted the new one to 80 psi for now? Also I’m sure it’s supposed to be 100 psi like everyone says but the pump is bad most likely and that’s why it’s low. So if I install a new pump wouldn’t it be back to where it should be and good?
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Stop adjusting the pump pressure when you don't have any way to ensure the combustion is correct. You can create an unsafe operating condition. Please, just call an oil burner service provider. Oil burner repairs that aren't done with the right tools can cause property damage and even death from carbon monoxide poisoning.
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I only adjusted the pump pressure to test and see if it would hold as someone stated above it shouldnt drop below 80 when set at 100. How would the carbon monoxide get inside the house? Wouldn’t it just go out the chimney? Also if I installed the new pump wouldn’t it be set for 100 like you said which is where this is supposed to run?
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After 10 minutes it went down to 65.
This confirms a bad pump.
Just install the new one. It should be at 100 psi, as delivered and drop to about 85 psi and hold there when the burner stops.
The combustion was certainly setup for 100 psi and that is what you need to return to when operating.
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I have no idea what model furnace you have or what the pump pressure is supposed to be. New oil pumps are set for 100 PSI but need to be adjusted to whatever the manufacturer specifications are. That can be anywhere from 100-180 or higher.
The carbon monoxide danger is from the combustion being incorrect and soot forming from incomplete combustion. The heat exchanger will become plugged up with soot and then you can get a puffback into the home. This is what happens when people mess with oil burners without having a combustion analyzer to ensure it's burning correctly! The fact that the burner has been shutting off on safety already leaves me to believe that it was not burning correctly before you started playing with it.
It's your home, your family you can put them at risk if you want to. I have personally seen the aftermath of when homeowners want to play oil burner tech when they don't know what they are doing. The safe and smart decision would be getting a tech who can verify what the pump pressure should be, verify that the correct nozzle is installed and do everything else to ensure safe operation. I'm done with this. I can only say it so many times. Oil burner work is playing with fire. This isn't a DIY project like replacing a toilet.
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How can you say for sure what the pump pressure should be? We don't know what make or model equipment he has or what the pressure was set for before it was messed with.
Advising someone to replace an oil pump when they have no ability to check combustion is like telling someone "turn left on Main Street, keep driving until the end of the road with your eyes closed".
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Get a new Suntec 3450 A pump. It should be 100 psi out of the box but verify. It's only firing a .50 or .60 nozzle, right? I've never seen a burner for a mobile home down flow furnace spec'd higher than 100 psi.
Get a new burner coupling and install a Firomatic valve at the pump as well.
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I do have a carbon monoxide detector right beside the furnace. I replaced the pump with a suntec 3450 and made sure it was at 100 psi. It still tripped last night twice. Any other insights? I feel I checked everything to at least make it run without tripping
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