Pipe suddenly won’t supply steam
So I have a large radiator (pictured). It’s always worked just fine. Stopped heating to capacity. So I changed the trap. Got hot but not as hot as before. Then 2 days later quit working. I cannot get it to heat again on its own. It seems to be unable to draw steam from the main. Now I have two pipes coming off the main like 4 inches apart (also pictured) the one is piping hot. The other is hot and cools off after about a foot from the main. I have it fully disconnected, wide open from the radiator and it won’t release steam. I can force it with a shop vac and it pumps out steam for asplit second (like it should) and then immediately stops. While left fully open, the occasional wisp with come out of the supply valve.
Help!
2” supply lines. From the main (where the 22°elbow is in the picture there’s only like 3’ of pipe before it gets to the radiator. What gives?
Comments
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That bottom picture is with the valve open and steam in the main?
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
I don't see a trap?
But if steam or air won't come out of the valve when it is completely disconnected like that, either the valve isn't open — or somewhere in that short length of pipe there is a blockage, which would be … odd.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England2 -
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@delcrossv right!?!? The valve is open, the “piece” is attached as I can close the valve. (Currently closed as rad Is disconnected)
using a shop vac I can force it to supply steam, which will pour out for about 1 second after I stop vacuuming. I tried to upload a video but it wouldn’t let me.I’m getting more and more lost here. And it would be odd for a 2” supply line to be clogged.
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As an iPhone programmer, it pains me to see people take a screenshot of the photos app and share the screenshot instead of sharing the original photo itself!
Isn't this one-pipe ?
NJ Steam Homeowner.
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See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
@ethicalpaul it was a video, and it wouldn’t let me upload it. I know there’s a way to do that properly but I have two down radiators in a business rental space and I don’t have time to dink around man….if you don’t have any insight to my problem, kindly move along. 😰
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water trapped in the runout or the washer fell off the valve and is sitting on top of the seat.
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Thanks @Msteam1 for the explanation. I did also offer some attempted insight which was "Isn't this one-pipe?"
I think I maybe see a trap in your photo roll on that screenshot, but I don't see one on that seemingly one-pipe radiator. Are there traps and also 1-pipe radiators on this system?
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
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What happens if you close the valve to the radiator next to it?
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If it will supply under vacuum, I'll bet there's a pool of water there. You said it's hot up to the first elbow? Riser next to it is working fine?
Upload the picture looking into the valve.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
@mattmia2 “water trapped in the runout” what is the runout? And you’re saying the washer as in the supply valve has a washer that fell off?
The supply valve does seem to seal. Although they are very old and I don’t k ow that I’ve seen rubber washers on any of them .
I will try shutting off the other rad and see the results0 -
@delcrossv okay so possible water pooling in the horizontal supply section going to the rad could cause a block of steam? I will update my post with another picture once I’m back on site.
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@ethicalpaul Sorry 😆 it is a two pipe system. It was disconnected to check for blockage rust etc, but it is a 2 pipe system.
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The runout is that piece of pipe off the main that connects to the radiator. It should have pitc toward the main. The fact that there are shims under the radiator indicates that someone was trying to solve some sort of pitch problem at some point.
The valve should have a washer of some sort on it, frequently leather. That may have rotted and fallen off or the screw or nut came off and it is now resting on the seat. I said try turning off the other radiator because the boiler may not have enough capacity to fill all the radiators or for some reason that section of main doesn't have enough capacity for both(like some trapped condensate is collapsing some of the steam). What if you open the valve after is has run a good long half hour or so cycle, is there steam there then?
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@mattmia2 okay. So runout is what connects the main to the radiator and we are talking about the supply correct?
There was flooring adjustments at some point so not 100% sure the purpose of the shims.
The main supply needs to pitch slightly down from radiator to the main?
And then in a 2 pipe system, the rad should pitch down slightly towards the outlet…
I know that the disc that closes the inlet valve is still attached and functional. I will get a picture tomorrow. Whether there is an old leather or rubber piece that has degraded or not I cannot be sure. I have several “extra” of these valves around and none have washers. They’re all just a disc cover that raises and lowers.
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it is possible that somehow some debris got in there and is forming a dam that is holding water in the runout if all of it has pitch toward the main, pouring a couple gallons of water through it could potentially dislodge that. if this radiator didn't heat with the others because the trap is bad or the return is holding water or got heated from a bad trap elsewhere i could see where all the other radiators combined could be consuming all of the steam the boiler produces. a better test would be to see what happens with the valve open with a relatively cool system.
the runout could have dropped when you disconnected the radiator too
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3 choices take your pick
1 Take the supply valve off the pipe. Get a piece of clear poly tubing at the big box and cut one end on a 45 and stick the other end in your shop vac hose and tape it tight and try to work it all the way back to the main
2 Dump water down the pipe and see how fast it drains. But if you wash debris into the main you may just move the problem to a different location. Or it might spread out the debris so it will not be a problem
3 Cut the pipe off between the 45 and the main and remove or snake or flush out the debris and put it back together with 2 shorter nipples and a union. But you have asbestos to deal with
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I will just say the odds that there is a blockage in the radiator or pipes is fleetingly small, be ready for disappointment there.
Let's go to Occam's razor—you changed the trap and within two days the radiator no longer heated…why aren't we suspecting the trap?
It's like that joke where the guy is in the kitchen looking for his keys he lost in the living room because the light is better
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el1 -
@ethicalpaul i have been a bit now, no blockages in either the supply pipe or condensation return. Is there a way to test the traps? How often/likely is it to get a bad trap straight from the store? I’ve only purchased a few and so far haven’t had issues.
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I have to apologize because I misread your original post. I thought you said it failed after you replaced the trap, but you said it failed and THEN you replaced the trap. And you have tested the wide open valve disconnected from the radiator. So I'm sorry for being not careful enough reading.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
Open up the trap side and see if you get steam out of the return. you can have a failed F&T allowing steam in the return and trapping air unless the returns drop into a wet return.
aldso have you checked the boiler to make sure its not short cycling?
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Your situation reminds me of the story on the last two pages of the attached article. Perhaps you will find it useful. That some of your run-outs are insulated but the troubled radiator has an uninsulated run-out may be an issue as well, even though it's such a short run. Not sure.
Good luck!
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