new crown gas fired steam boilers - water needed every week

The amount of water you are adding is not acceptable. So the question is — where is it going?

It is not impossible for a new boiler to leak, although those are small enough that they were likely delivered in one piece (I am puzzled by the remark about the chimney — is it in use? In one place you say something about it being full of insulation?)

It is possible that some — though likely not all — of the water loss is from the vents. Some of it also may be from the shutoff valves on the radiators. Those all need to be checked and maintained (or in the case of the vents, replaced) as needed. Most of it, though, is likely to be from plain vanilla leaks in the piping. There is, though, a definite and useful sequence to finding leaks — but it pretty well needs to be done in warmer weather!

Let me re-word this "

1. If the boiler has a leak above the water line, then steam could be leaving out the vent along with the flue gas. You may never see water on the floor if that is the case.

1. If the boiler has a leak above the water line, then steam could be leaving out between the cast iron sections. That steam will then go up the chimney vent along with the byproducts of the combustion process. You may never see water on the floor if that is the case. (steam will go up the chimney as steam not water)

Small steam leaks add up fast! I had a leak in between two sections of one of my radiators. It didn't leak enough to drip, it was at the top of the push nipple on the bottom of the radiator but it would bubble a bit.

For the longest time I dismissed it because I thought it was too minor to make a difference….all the while I was adding make up water weekly. I fixed that leak and guess what…I top the boiler off once a month maybe.

Set the thermostat up high to get the system full of steam and a little pressure. Use a small mirror and move it around all the joints, valves, vents, etc. You will see little wisps of fog on the glass of the mirror if steam is leaking. Sometimes leaks are so minor you can't see or hear them….but they are there.

3 bad radiator vents and a slow valve leak (needed a mirror to see it) added up to a weekly refill on a fairly large multifamily system.

Chase down those leaks!

Valves are easy

If valve is leaking at the valve stem :

First, try tightening the top (packing) nut 1/4 turn. That's usually enough.

If it's still leaking, turn boiler off, remove the packing nut and use a pick , like a nut pick or dentist's pick to remove the old packing; get some new thin valve packing at the hardware store and wrap around the valve stem while stuffing it gently onto the gap where the old packing was. when you get to 1/16 or so over the top replace the packing nut and SLIGHTLY tighten. If you can't turn the handle you tightened it too much. If it's still leaking, tighten a little more.

Vents unscrew. Again Boiler off, unscrew old vent, put some teflon thread tape on new vent(be careful not to occlude the port) and screw in. Vent should be vertical- only hand tighten these.

Maid -o-mist and Gorton are decent rad vents. Get them at Supplyhouse.com- NOT your local Home Depot.

The red circle is your main vent

This should be removed and the pipe replaced with a 3/4 street elbow to at least an 8" nipple. Put a Gorton #1 main vent on the end. Your installer should do that for a reasonable fee.

Should do the same on Boiler 2.

I don't have your contact in front of me, and wouldn't comment if I did, but it seems that most installers (with some notable exceptions) do not include vent replacements with boiler installs. 🫤

You should mirror check both main vents. If they're leaking then, yes they're contributing to your water loss.

Drain on wet return? It's there.

Did you start out with the statement that your boiler needs water weekly. I would think that your boiler is "losing water abnormally".

And your contract says "We hereby state that the work we have proposed will correct the problems associated with the improperly piped boiler and that all of the radiators will heat thoroughly and evenly, the boiler not lose water abnormally, the boiler water will stop surging and the boiler will stop short cycling. In the event that the work we complete does not improve the situation then all monies paid for our work shall be refunded in full."

Based on that line in the contract, I think you need to apply for the "refund in full" in writing. See how fast they start looking for that leak.

Start keeping a written log of how much water you are adding and how often.

In order to know how much water you are adding, you can mark the water line with tape on the gauge glass. Then mark the spot where the LWCO stops the burner by removing that much water into a bucket. From the bucket, measure how many quarts or gallons that much water is on the gauge glass. (For example 1.5" on gauge glass = 2.7 gallons or something like that)

Now every time you need to add water you know how many gallons you are adding and you can write it down with the date and keep a record of it.  

That info will hold up in court if that boiler is still losing water in 3 years when it gets to court.

But it won't get that far. I had the same thing happen on a church that used 999 gallons of water in the first 6 weeks of operation. I found a buried wet return in a crawlspace that was rotted away. All the return condensate from that section of the building was draining into the crawl space under the sand. The church agreed to pay extra for that pipe repair. And that repair solved the boiler water loss problem.

I think those statements were from the higher quote that he did not accept. The higher quote was comprehensive and guaranteed including vents, traps and valves.

Incredible how pricey something as simple as a steam trap cartridge is for B to C.

Also reading the steam book now, I accepted copper for the supply pipe, which I should not have done. or maybe "Copper Type L" doesn't corrode in the way copper tubing does. 

I don’t know what you are referring to. If you mean the makeup water supply, copper is fine. Steam pipes should be steel and yours are

> Does the makeup water piping look professional at all? If you had paid for it would you complain? I guess it does not impact performance

No, it’s garbage. Look how it’s all just swinging loose. But pick your battles. Were these installs inspected?

Boiler 1’s main vent is insufficient as was pointed out by another poster. It’s that skinny chrome one near the ceiling. I don’t think I’ve seen boiler 2’s

It's in the pictures, same thing: just stuck on the end of a reducing tee.

Ahh there it is on boiler #2. I thought I saw up there that one of the installers said they were putting on a Hoffman main vent which neither of these is. Not that I like Hoffman main vents, but these ones look bad:

> Hi again @ethicalpaul

looking at my quote for boiler one, I think they did replace the main vent. See below for how it's listed in my quote:

OK so if it says they should replace it on the quote, see if there are any shiny new main vents on your main pipes near the basement ceilings. In the photo above it sure looks like a crappy old vent

Your question confuses me a little because if they promised in their quote to replace the main vent and they didn't, it doesn't seem like you should have to worry about them fixing the main vents, they should have replaced them and you should be able to ask them if they did.

I think I know that you have two different installers with two different contracts, but you get what I'm saying I hope.

@redheadgenes

I am trying to follow this conversation and want to clarify some of the things stated here.

1. Please disregard any contracts or referenced from plumbers you did no pay or have any contract with, in order to eliminate confusion.
2. A professional tradesman gave you a price for repiping your old boiler and you paid for that work
3. The same professional tradesman then installed a new boiler on the same system that the previous repiping was completed.
4. The contract for the repiping made the statement "Loosing water abnormally" … and … "refund in full" in the terms of the agreement.

Are statements 2, 3, and 4 above correct?