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Gas Boiler Question

Mystic
Mystic Member Posts: 30

Hello,

I recently installed a gas steam boiler for my house and I have a question. Is it normal for it to turn off by itself every few minutes (for example, it would turn on for maybe 30 minutes, turn off for 2 minutes or more and turn back on and does it over and over) even when the temperature hasn’t reached? My pressurepetrol is set to I believe 2 PSI while the diff was set between 1.5 and 2. My internal siphon psi is 3 ticks below 5. My last boiler which was oil did not do this I believe but any advice would be appreciated.

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Comments

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 17,054

    Sounds like your boiler is either oversized or you need more venting. Shut the boiler off and when the supply pipes have cooled (not steam hot) start it up. When the supply pipe coming out of the boiler gets hot start timing with a stopwatch. Then go to the far end of the mains. It doesn't matter how many mains you have 1, 2 or 3 and see how long it takes for steam to get to the end of each main.

  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    so my boiler is a Crown boiler (BSI138ENPZZPSU) and my house has 6 radiators across 2 floors. I can’t do the stop watch right now since the pipes are already hot so I’ll try tomorrow. One thing I do know is that it takes ages for the house to warm up (it didn’t previously) and some vents don’t feel too hot but do have heat. Also, apologies, but could you explain what main means? Pretty new at this.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 17,054

    Coming out of the boiler is the supply steam pipe that feeds the steam mains. The supply pipe may split (tee off) and you might have 1,2 or 3 mains. If it is a small house you might have only 1 main.

    You have air vents on the radiators. In addition to that you should have vents either at the far end of the main(s) or they could be near the boiler if you have dry returns.

    Pictures will help of the piping around the boiler and the end of the mains. We need to see if the boiler is piped properly.

    Also was the boiler water skimmed after the install?

  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    It wasn’t skimmed after install but I skimmed it multiple times to clean it out through the months. I believe I have a main pipe (or two$ but what I do know is one of the pipes has a jacobus air vent #1 attached. I’ll send the pictures tomorrow for your reference.

  • TKPK
    TKPK Member Posts: 74


    Caution: homeowner, not a pro

    if your main vents are not getting hot I would pull them off and test them (hold in upright position and blow into the pipe fitting). If you can’t easily move air through them they are blocked or defective…put them in near boiling vinegar for 5 minutes. Retest / replace

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 9,946

    @Mystic, that boiler sounds like it is way oversized for a home with only 6 radiators. when you are taking those pictures tomorrow, could you also take a picture of each of the six radiator so we can see how many sections (Ribs) they have?

    …and also the dimensions from the floor to the top of the radiator, (HIGH) how deep it is from the front side facing out and the back side facing the wall (DEEP), and the number of sections.

    I would like to do the calculation your installer should have done before they selected the boiler size.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    PC7060
  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    if you mean the bulbs attached with the radiator, I replaced all of them with new ones

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,559

    @Mystic , does your boiler have a "CycleGard" low-water cutoff?

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    mattmia2JohnNY
  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    Youll see there's two missing. One radiator that is missing is the same length as the one that has 13 holes (or the pic that has the longest radiator). The last missing radiator is a standing radiator like the one you sent. I don't have a picture right now of that unfortunately but will upload that soon.

  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    For some reason the other did not attach

  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30
    edited December 2024

    for everyone’s reference, here is my gauges

    the white circle was when it was during use

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,559

    I bet that's why it's shutting down like that. Next time it does, go see if the green light on the CycleGard is on. It's probably on the right-hand side. If it's on, it's doing an intermittent level check which stops the burner.

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    ethicalpaul
  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    ok, will take a look the next time I turn it on and will let you know

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 17,054

    Also try putting more water in the boiler. You should be at 1/2 a glass full unless the boiler MFG labels it differently. The water level in your gauge glass looks to be down near the cut off level although pictures can be deceiving.

  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    so I just checked it when it turned off, none of the lights are on in the CycleGuard

  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    Usually it’s more or less half of the glass sight but I just made it half. The only time I know when it used the emergency water line was when steam was leaking from my radiator which I fixed by replacing the valve

  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30
    edited December 2024

    our standing radiator has 7 ribs with a length of 15 in and depth of around 8in and height of around 36in

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 9,946
    edited December 2024

    @Mystic Thanks for the Radiator pictures. Can you take the measurements I asked about? I would like to know what the dimensions of the recessed wall radiators are. How high the radiator is, and how deep it recesses into the wall. That will help me to the size calculations needed.

    If the measurements line up with this chart, then I believe these may be your radiators. Thatis why I need the dimensions


    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    Here are my dimensions from length to height to depth (if applicable) in inches:


    17x18
    18x19.5x2
    31x20
    31x20
    13x19x2
    15x36x8 (standing radiator)

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,559
    edited December 2024

    @Mystic , I think your radiators are newer than that. The red one, and the similar white one are American-Standard Sunrads, and are covered in @DanHolohan 's book "E.D.R.". The other two are similar to the ones OCS sells- find them here:

    https://ocsind.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/15981-OCS-Catalog.Updated15-6.pdf

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    the picture does look like all my radiators (besides the standing one) but I unfortunately don’t know because there’s no model number written or there’s paint over it.

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 9,946

    I don't have enough information to be accurate yet. A picture of the radiators that are still not shown, with the measurements associated with them is necessary to be accurate. But from experience I took some educated guesses as to what your total EDR square foot is for the existing connected radiation. I believe that it is more than 170 sq ft but not more than 200 sq ft.  

     The Crown Boiler that you have in your home is rated for 354 square feet of radiation.  That boiler may be double the size that your home requires.   That is part of the problem.   I guess that it is paid in full but now you have very little recourse with the installing contractor.   I would contact them anyway and let them know that you are going to need to know how they determined that size, and what they are going to do about the problems their boiler installation is causing.   Unless of course YOU are the installer, then you have only yourself to blame.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    ok, thank you. I have attached the pictures of the radiators above but I’ll try to see if I can contact them but I doubt they’ll help me without further cost

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 9,946
    edited December 2024

    How old is the install? What does the contract say about the installation? if there is nay wording that states something like "according to industry standards". or any reference to the "manufacturers instructions" then they did not abide by the sales contract and you have recourse. That boiler is NOT installed "in accordance with the manufacturers instructions" or "by industry standards". A good letter from a lawyer will let them know that you are serious about the contractor getting the job done correctly.

    It is not operating properly and it never did and you paid for a system that was supposed to be installed properly and that operates properly and you did not get what you paid for. If you don't make a thing about it, then they will just go on making the same mistakes and other customers will have your same experience.

    You actually need a new boiler that is the correct size to fix your problem and no one else is going to do that for you for free. Are you prepared to spend the same amount of money or more to get it right? Do you think that it is fair that your contractor did it wrong and got paid to do it wrong? Your contractor has insurance that can cover their "on the job" learning experience at your home. If the proper lawyer sends the right letter, you can win this and get a new boiler. you have heat now so if it takes a few years to get your money back, at least you won't be without heat all that time.

    Just so you know, on page one of the installation manual it clearly states that the installer has the responsibility of selecting the correct size boiler

    From Page 1

    SIZE THE BOILER PROPERLY relative to the design heat load or, if using domestic hot water priority, the peak hot water load, which ever is larger. A grossly oversized boiler will cycle excessively and this will lead to premature failure of the boiler and its components. Our warranty does not apply to damage from excessive cycling.

    Your contractor clearly did not follow this important instruction.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30
    edited December 2024

    I unfortunately do not have it written where they will install it according to industry standards and such. I might have to spend more out of pocket to fix it or just leave it as is. I should have taken more time to research into the installations steps further, I have no one but myself to blame

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 9,946

    I might compose a letter if I were you, that indicates that the contractor did not install the boiler according to the manufacturer's instructions.  Then report this poorly installed job to the state licensing folks.  When a contractor gets a letter from the State licensing people, the contractor listens.  

    You can do this yourself at very little cost to yourself.


    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    Mad Dog_2LRCCBJ
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,550

    @Mystic - can you provide pictures of the boiler and the near piping?

  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    apologies for the late response. Here are the photos

  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    I see that I have an Aquastat attached to my boiler. It could be the reason why its turns off frequently. I’m not sure why I have this since all I have are radiators but I could be misunderstanding.

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 9,946
    edited December 2024

    I see no aquastat.  I see a Low Water Cut Off (the black box) and a Pressure control With the cleat plastic cover).  Both of those parts come already assembled from the factory.

    EDIT: After closer examination, there is something that looks like an aquastat near the bottom of the boiler Directly under the Site Glass.

    I have no Idea what that would be there for. The boiler does not need a water temperature control in order to make steam and there are no obvious reasons for maintaining a minimum water temperature, or anything else that needs to be operated when the water reaches a certain temperature.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 17,054

    I see nothing that would point to the use of an aquastat

  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    I do plan on using baseboard later on when I install them but I have nothing like that right now. It’s probably the reason why my boiler is shutting down so frequently. It’s currently set to 200 and I believe steam comes at 212. Is there a way so that the boiler does not rely on this for now?

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 9,946
    edited December 2024

    Open the cover and look at the wires and how they are connected.

    disconnect one wire and see if the boiler makes steam.

    Leave it disconnected and see if your problem goes away.

    Take a picture of the wires and post it here, Thanks.

    Also take a selfie with the boiler in the background in order to see what a BOT might look like. LOL

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 25,453

    Either one. It's just a fancy on/off switch.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    separate the black and white wire (put tape over) correct?

    delcrossvEdTheHeaterMan
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,754
    edited December 2024

    Yep. If boiler doesn't fire, just reconnect them. It's not clear the aquastat is wired in circuit.

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • Mystic
    Mystic Member Posts: 30

    I will take a look when I have the time. But please correct me if I’m wrong but I thought them being connected together meant it was not activated.

    bburd