Help me swap my Gorton #1 main vent (with free used Hoffman 75) ?
Comments
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That was probably boiler water from surging. Condensate is so clear you could drink it, but don't.
Every time the vent closes to steam it is exposed to condensate, but it is good to use a nipple, we agree!
NJ Steam Homeowner.
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I'll keep using the nipple. I just figured I'd ask since the #2 seems to have a built-in mini nipple
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That's so it would fit in a coupling - on the end of a nipple.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
I just cracked it loose and then re-tightened. Why the dope?
What is pipe dope for? It is thread lock or just caulk/sealer/anti-seize?
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caulk/sealer/anti-seize?
Yes. Exactly. Alternative is Teflon thread tape.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
What @delcrossv said. The dope will help it re-seal and also make it easier to remove.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
Making progress.
Last night I removed the nipple and broke free the coupler with the 2 wrench method.
Stood on one10" wrench, and had helper bust free with 24" wrench.
Put in back on the main, but now I know I can complete this job and not get stuck
So, all systems go. I just need to get to a store to buy the #2 and adapter.
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Interestingly, I called a few shops and almost none carry the #2.
They all seem to carry very small rate main vents like Hoffman 4A or 40… or MoMist #1
Why would this be? Do most systems not have a single long main like mine?
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Why ask why? Go to supplyhouse.com (a fine sponsor of this very site — be sure to go there from the ad that is probably at the bottom of this page)
I advised a person in the next town over to have his plumber repair a leak in his long 3" main (it's a big house) and to install a main vent (there was none before). His plumber put in a #1. It was comically small looking on that 3" main but it was working not too bad, but I told him a #2 would be better.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el1 -
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0
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So, with no main vent, all venting was done by the radiator vents? What is the downside of that?
I wonder if that's why my rads all have Gorton D, since the 60 ft. single main only has Gorton #1 ?
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The downside is that it takes a long time to vent all that air out of radiator vents (although as you say, not in your case due to the massive vents you have on all your radiators)
It's also harder to get heat where you want it, when you want it (balancing) without main vents.
It also can result in high pressure in the system, but again, probably not in your case currently.
It could very well be that someone put those D vents on all those radiators in a misguided attempt to get heat upstairs faster.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el1 -
Thanks to you guys, I got it done!
But it made no difference.
Still takes 10 mins. for the end of the main to get hot.
What gives?
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You asked in the other thread too, and the answer is the same. You still have multiple size D vents on your radiators, and they are taking the steam from the main.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el1 -
With all the discussion on installation of the vent I think you lost sight of the question that was asked of whether your 10 minutes (6 minutes from when steam reached the header) was with a warmed up system or a mostly cold system. If cold the 10/6 is not unreasonable and more venting isn't going to help much because most of the time is spent heating up the pipes and creating condensate as the steam advances. If with a warm system 15-30min after last run then that does seem too long.
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Yes, it's hard for me to keep track of the big concepts when lost in the weeds of installation for weeks at a time as an amateur rookie DIY.
All timed measurements were on a cold system.
With both Gorton #1 and #2, Takes 10 mins to get end of single 60ft. main warm.
With Gorton #1, first radiator sections start to heat up at that same 10 mins mark.
With the #2, at 10 mins., all rads are still stone cold.
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it’s because each of your radiators has a main vent on it so the steam goes everywhere at the start
That’s fine if it works, but what if you had a cold room? How would you make more steam go there?
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
I can't remember why the D's are bad exactly? Now that I have a #2 installed, why again should I replace the D's on the radiators? But, what will that accomplish except slow down all the radiators heating up even slower? And raising system pressure even higher? I thought you want steam in the rads. The D's do exactly that, no? Why are D's bad again? What is the point of tiny vents except to limit steam??
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if you’re comfortable, return the #2 and be happy.
Refer back to your discussion threads, there’s no need to repeat everything here. At least, I’m not going to 🙂NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
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Thanks. I'll review the threads for a few hours over the weekend.
I do remember D = bad because radiator gets too hot, too fast. But, that's exactly what I want. I spend 100% of my time in the LR. Would prefer LR at 65 and rest of house cold. So, I want a Gorton D on my LR rad. Then at night, I only want heat in BR#3. Another D? All other rooms can get VentRite set at 1? Or just plug the vents in empty rooms? Do they sell vent plugs since 100 year old inlet valves aren't able to properly fully close?
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Well I like my living room warm too and I have a #5 on it which is extremely tiny compared to a D
Yes most radiator vents are threaded 1/8" NPT and you can buy a brass plug that size from supplyhouse. Or you can pipe a 1/8" ball valve in line with the vent so that you can enable or disable it at will. I have several like this.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
You did verify that the Gorton #2 was operational before installing it? Bad ones have been received before.
Probably mentioned earlier in the threads but I would still recommend Ventrite 1's on those radiators you want off or nearly off. They can be set very slow or even off just with the dial and are pretty reliable vents. Slowing down what you don't need warm will go a long way toward speeding up what you do want warm. That said there isn't really any way more venting should slow down how fast steam gets to the end of the main. However, it is possible more steam was going to the radiators before the main was filled with slower main venting. Faster main venting combined with slower vents on the unused rooms is your optimal solution.
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Ball valve is an interesting idea. Just open valve when there is guest in bedroom. Better than messing with ancient inlet valve.
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Yes, I just placed a Hoffman 1A set to "1" in the spare bedroom, and it slowed down the radiator. I will do the same to the other BR. Leave to D's in BR#3 and LR.
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Glad it worked. I have many Hoffman 1a's and it seems to be a pretty durable vent but when it comes to low venting control I just prefer the Ventrite 1a's. The control on the Hoffman is a little sloppy on how the rotating plate under the cap covers the vent hole.
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Funny, I posted this last month:
I picked up a Hoffman 1A and am skeptical of the design. There is so much slop in the spinning cap that it can easily block the hole, or leave it wide open. It does not feel accurate at all. I am thinking of returning it. What am I missing? Just make sure cap is fully seated before tightening cap nut? Seems so easy to seat it crooked.
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Update:
Recall, I swapped Gorton #1 for a Gorton #2 for my single pipe 60 foot main. It used to take 10 mins. to heat the end of main.
Today, it took 6 mins. to heat the end of main. I have also installed slow vents on 2 of the rads. so more steam may be diverted to the main now.
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This is the current performance, just for recordkeeping.
I wanted LR/DR and BR#3 to get most heat. BR #1&2 deliberately slowed down.
11/29
7:50am
37F outside
LR is 62F
Set thermostat to 656 mins. to heat the entire main
0:00 - LR temp is 62
10:00 min
10:00 - LR temp is 62
20:00 - LR temp is 62
30:00 - LR temp is 64
36:00 - LR temp is 65
43:00 - LR temp is 66 (Boiler shuts off)
50:00 - LR temp is 67
1:00:00 - LR temp is 68
1:10:00 - LR temp is 68
1:20:00 - LR temp is 68LR Section 6/20 is hot (Gorton D)
20:00 min
DR Section 1/16 is hot (VariVent)
BR #1 Section 0/8 hot (Hoffman 1A - setting #1)
BR #2 Section 0/7 hot (Dole #1A, setting 2/10)
BR #3 Section 2/17 hot (Gorton D)LR Section 16/20 is hot (Gorton D)
30:00 min
DR Section 11/16 is hot (VariVent)
BR #1 Section 5/8 hot (Hoffman 1A - setting #1)
BR #2 Section 2/7 hot (Dole #1A, setting 2/10)
BR #3 Section 13/17 hot (Gorton D)LR Section 20/20 is hot (Gorton D)
DR Section 16/16 is hot (VariVent)
BR #1 Section 8/8 hot (Hoffman 1A - setting #1)
BR #2 Section 3/7 hot (Dole #1A, setting 2/10)
BR #3 Section 17/17 hot (Gorton D)43:00 - LR temp is 66 (Boiler shuts off)
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So is that about where you want it from a "comfort" balance standpoint?
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Again that Hoffman 1a may or may not be well set on 1. You almost need to take the top off and then lower back on carefully observing how the shield lines up over the vent hole. You may need to hold a specific concentricity on the cap when retightening it to ensure covering the vent hole properly. Too much slop… If it is venting too fast for you try a Ventrite 1.
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Good point. I set the Hoffman 1A by hand, before installing, and did a blow test also. The Hoffman 1A certainly starts out slower than the others, so I think it's set ok. I just think by 30:00, the system is full of steam and all rads now fill, regardless of vent speed. The BR#2 Dole 1A may seem to be filling slower because it's a much taller (3x the height) radiator than BR#1.
Yes, I wanted LR/DR and BR#3 to get most heat. BR #1&2 deliberately slowed down.
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So @CoachBoilermaker , if the system is now balanced like you like, run with it and at the end of the season compare your oil usage with last season's. Then get back to us with the results.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting
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When looking at your oil usage you will want to use a usage per heating degree day format. This may end up being a colder winter than last…
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