How can you drill and tap a radiator vent hole and still use the original 1/8" vent size?
Missing something basic.
The 1/8" tap is only used to clean the threads, right?
In the video, he uses an 11/32" drill bit. That is much larger than 1/8 (or 4/32). In fact, that is 3x larger !!
If you drill out the hole, it's now bigger than the original 1/8" and the vent will be too small for the enlarged hole?
Comments
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1/8 is the inside diameter. The pipe itself and its hole is indeed larger
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
When you look at a 1/8" pipe's outside diameter and 1/8" on a standard ruler or measuring tape, it will become much clearer.
And any tap can be used to clean up threads of an existing opening of that particular dimension. But that is not its only function! (answer to "The 1/8" tap is only used to clean the threads, right?" is NO). I have also drilled a hole in a material and used a TAP to make threads in that hole. We are talking about using the suggested drill size to match the tap that will offer you the threads needed to get the job done. Nothing different that what you might do with any piece of machinery.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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"The 1/8" tap is only used to clean the threads, right?" Not necessarly.
"1/8" NPT pipe tap uses an 'R' size drill bit. Because the tap is tapered you can re-tap the hole which will make it a little larger and the vent would screw in a little deeper. That way you would cut a deeper thread into new metal.
If you have a broken piece of the vent in the hole, you might try an easy-out to remove it. Screw the easy-out into the broken part and than tap the easy-out lightly with a hammer on the end of the easy-out to loosen the threads.
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I am wondering if @CoachBoilermaker
actually has a problem? OR Is he getting prepared for one?
I believe that all his vents are removable however the fact that out of 100,000 vents in 100,000 radiators, there may be 50 that broke off, Our Coach is having anxiety attacks over the thought of attempting this daunting task. It is entirely possible that the folks that owned the home before you, swapped those vents out within the past 10 years, and that the vents you have are not 80 years old.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Correct.
Before I tackle DIY project I always try to figure out what could go wrong. I don't want to be left hanging with a limbo situation. One thing I've learned in car mechanics is that if something can go wrong it will. A simple half hour job can become an 8-hour job. I'm very careful not to bite off more than I can chew and get in over my head. If it goes well unscrewing event looks like a 5-minute job. Or it could crack off and disable the entire heating system for a week until I get a tech to tap out the thread or whatever if the vent cracks or crumbles while I'm removing it.
I'm assuming if they're vent cracks off and leaves a gaping hole in the side of the radiator then I can't use the heating system at all because it'll be spewing steam everywhere. So I'm carefully trying to manage and assess the risk of a half functioning system bird in hand....versus the risk of a totally broken system If the vent breaks. I'm also trying to determine if I'm qualified to do this repair or if I need to call a shop to do it who has proper tap and die experience. It's all about knowing what to do when s*** go sideways.
I have no idea when these vents were last replaced. One of them is painted over with caked on paint. They don't look new at all. The main vent is been encased inside the ceiling of the basement. I think the last owners were clueless and had no idea how to maintain a steam system besides having a tech do the annual service (whatever that I means).
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Brass to steel or iron connections tend to not seize.
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@CoachBoilermaker said: I'm assuming if they're vent cracks off and leaves a gaping hole in the side of the radiator then I can't use the heating system at all because it'll be spewing steam everywhere. So I'm carefully trying to manage and assess the risk of a half functioning system bird in hand....versus the risk of a totally broken system If the vent breaks. I'm also trying to determine if I'm qualified to do this repair or if I need to call a shop to do it who has proper tap and die experience. It's all about knowing what to do when s*** go sideways.
Actually you could keep operating that system, by turning that radiator off at the inlet valve. You could also stuff the vent hole with a wooden peg as a temporary stop gap measure. But I applaud your efforts to know everything that could go wrong and try to prepare for it.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Third week of October isn't an ideal vent-wrenching week. But the vast majority of vents unscrew without any drama. As Matt says, brass seldom seizes to iron. Check your angle valve, and have any it. I've unscrewed thousands of these and never broke one off. I have drilled and tapped radiators too and that's not too hard either. The iron's usually old great quality that takes threading beautifully.
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If the vent is removed ,running a 1/8" NPT tap is good practice to clean the threads before installing a new vent , If the stem breaks in the radiator, I find it best to first drill it out with the drill size marked on the tap , then clean it with the tap … I don't recommend using easy outs , not on cast ….
There was an error rendering this rich post.
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The inlet valves are possibly 100 years old, and I have no idea if they work. I tried turning one of them and had zero confidence it was not going to fall apart in my hands (while simultaneously feeling stuck and catchy)
I do not own any wood pegs, nor do I know where to buy one. Home Depot?
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I tried to remove the living room vent.
Not even a hint of budging.
Stuck ROCK SOLID.
Should I try a massive channellock on it ?
Or will that destroy the delicate tin vent?
There is not built-in nut on the stem
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Is it painted on? It is unlikely that the brass thread on the vent are rust welded to the cast iron of that radiator. O would look for something like an adjustable wrench that you can set to a specific width. channel locks will crush as you apply more force. Do you have a 12 point box end wrench that the circle will go over the entire vent and find its way to the bottom near the threaded 1/8" threads? Just a thought.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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The vent is stuck solid. Could well be 80 years old.
It's also painted over. Does painting it affect the functioning?
What's the best way to remove it? Sledge Hammer? Pipe wrench?
What's the safest part for the tool to grab onto?
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On that painted white Gorton vent, the escape hole for the air is facing the radiator. Can you see it? Can you feel air escaping during a heating cycle? Yes the vent can be painted shut which will not allow any steam to enter the radiator.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
Not following. How can a wrench fit around the round body and then shrink to grab the 1/8" threads? Even still, what is the wrench supposed to grab onto? Is there a nut near the threads?
I have a pipe wrench. Will it crush the fragile vent?
Is there an industry standard method for removing stuck vents like this?
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I can not see behind the vent.
When the heat was on yesterday, this vent was silent, and the vent side fins were stone cold.
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I would use a pair of channel locks to remove . The vent is made of brass , I would feel comfortable removing it …
There was an error rendering this rich post.
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A wrench, some leverage and a little effort is all that should be necessary to remove that. You aren't going to hurt anything. It's not that delicate! If you are removing it then you should have a new one on hand to replace it anyway.
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This is what I would use . the 18" variety.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Tomorrow is a 30 degree day in NY so I'm not gonna Fck with breaking a vent.
I'd rather have a half working heater than nothing at all (pipes freeze and now I've totalled the house)
I'll try to buy some vent valves locally (Hoffman, Gorton, or VariValve) and try to remove this one once its warm again after Thurs
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Heading to bed. I will run the heat again tomorrow night. Thank you for your time and expertise.
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what Paul was saying,
the vent hole may be painted shut,
on that little nipple, scrape the paint facing the radiator and see if the hole is blocked, if so poke it open with a pin or small nail,
that vent may work if the painted vent hole is opened
known to beat dead horses
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I’d say the vent is either working or was working recently. The discolored paint is a dead giveaway something gaseous has been coming out of it.
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I thought that was a shadow,
or Ed's big wrench
known to beat dead horses0 -
@EdTheHeaterMan Thanks for your diagram. I got the vent off !!
The vent hole was painted on the backside. Blowing into it, it does let air out, but very tight/slow. The new Hoffman 1A I got blows much more freely, even at the 1-slow setting. This must explain why the LR radiator was so slow to fill up.
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So what were you afraid of …. :)
There was an error rendering this rich post.
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That it would break off and need to be drilled out and/or strip the threads
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I think that was rhetorical 😅
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
With the price of these, a homeowner's time is well spent cleaning up any that are working and keeping them in service. Unclog the vent hole and possibly boil them in vinegar. If they close when turned upside down when blown into they are likely fine. The Gortons usually last forever.
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How does boiling in vinegar allow the sediment to escape from the inside of the vent? Can't it just also stay inside the vent and resettle inside?
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Vinegar is acetic acid which dissolves rust. Turns it from a solid to a liquid.
Rust dissolves and flushes out rather than staying inside.
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Vinegar dissolves the lime scale from internal vent parts.
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