Oil is better than coal!! (1926)

Ash everywhere , and when it rains or snows .. You were lucky to have some coal in the 30's… After WWII oil , automatic heat was the modern way . Just raise the thermostat … No need to stoke the boiler .. The Iron Fireman burning coal used a worm gear and trough to feed the fire . . You still had to contend with the ash .. Flushing Meadows Queens NY , was a huge air dump . It was mentioned in "The Great Gatsby " … Also the location of the 60's Worlds Fair ….

Thank you RascalOrnery for your comments as they are true to the facts.

I will continue using my coal stoker boiler. It heats my very old home better than oil ever did. I kicked my oil supplier suburban propain to the curb 9 years ago after they regularly allowed my oil tank to run out with their "scheduled budget auto delivery system".

Base burners are an excellent coal stove for burning both coal and wood.

Contact Andy Blaschak about good anthracite coal:

Home - Blaschak Anthracite

I met him at a recent trade show and he knows his stuff. Really down to earth. You can get it in several sizes and quantities ranging from 40lb bags just like pellets up to commercial bulk barges.

Paul, I'm not entirely POSITIVE on this but that could have been from the soft coal (leonz…enter now!) being burnt, anthracite burns cleanly, I think in comparison to propane by weight? (as far as what goes up and out the chimney, not talking about ash by produced). Anthracite is the superior home heating coal.

Because the fire is always lit, the boiler is always hot (no cold start options). SOME users/boilers run without insulation covers intentionally to let the radiant heat push up through the house, so you get a slight feet warming effect. Due to the usual affordability of coal this is not wasteful enough to matter. Also their water content can be BIG. It's not common to be over 50 gallons for a 150,000BTU(ish) unit. There's nothing like hanging your wet gloves and hat above or ON the stoker to get them dried out for after supper shoveling. It's kind of like weed wacking at full throttle…..too much power to be sane but too much fun to stop…😁

That's interesting.

My cold spots are totally isolated from any steam piping so the fuel wouldn't effect that but insulation sure would.

That aside Id gladly take that challenge and bet, not including the royal dirty pain in the butt that coal is, that my natural gas steam provides equal if not better comfort.

I think this needs it's own thread.

I guess I'm lucky

I never open windows because it's too hot. The entire house stays exactly the temperature I want all of the time.

As a side note, I would seriously question the choice of anyone with a NEW CONSTRUCTION building to use coal heat…unless it was HUMOUNGOUS or a small stove for nostalgia sake…. it's kind of a poor match, kind of like a guy on a <250CC road motorcycle being worried about the price of higher octane fuel…it's like dude….what do you get, 50 miles to the gallon?

Hello ChrisJ,

Natural draft coal stoves or natural draft octopus furnaces are an entirely different animal than an induced draft or forced draft coal boiler or furnace so let us get this misconception out of the way first.

This is because they depend on a regulated natural(atmospheric) over fire draft and regulated natural(atmospheric) under fire draft for combustion; this also requires the shaking of the grates in a rectangular fire box or rotating the grates in a pot belly stove or a base burner coal stove to keep the fire going in a natural draft boiler, stove or furnace.

The only time you have a noticeable smoke odor when burning anthracite is when the coal fire has to be restarted or if there is a great deal of wind causing a downdraft or your home is poorly insulated or if the coal fire is not allowed to burn hotter by opening the damper fully before you open the loading door or the ash pit door.

A properly managed anthracite coal fire barely has an odor and it has no smoke because of the high carbon content of the anthracite coal and the proper amount of combustion air entering the firebox below the fire and over the fire.

Now as far as the great smog of London is concerned; many things came into play which caused the great smog of London and the surrounding districts due to this phenomena of weather shall we?

First I can recommend and will recommend the book "DEATH IN THE AIR" written by Kate Winkler Dawson as it is a very detailed well written book about this weather phenomena. I am going from memory here as I do not have this well book in front of me as it is deeply buried with my other books.

First, many of the residential homes in London used fireplaces with grates for heating their homes and they burned either Bituminous coal or Anthracite Coal. They also had steam heat and octopus gravity furnaces as well.

Second the great smog of London was caused by a combination of weather factors which were a temperature inversion that stalled the air mass over southern England causing no air circulation to flow across London.

The usual rain and ground fog that plagues London and southern England in winter also had a part on this disaster as well because there was no wind coming off the Atlantic Ocean for a great period of time.

Going again from my memory here; the coal board could not supply enough anthracite and bituminous coal for heating so they began supplying homes with slack coal to burn in their fireplaces. Slack coal is lignite coal and the carbon based fuel that is older than Peat.

Natural gas in 1952 had not entered homes in London, England due to the war years and England was still living with rationing of many items. The City of London also depended on 6 coal fired power plants that provided heat and light for the city of London.

The combination of the 6 coal fired power plants, the temperature inversion caused by an unusual cold period during the first and second week of December 1952 along with the lack of anthracite coal and bituminous coal to heat homes-most of the deep mined Anthracite and Bituminous Coal mined in England at that time was exported to help pay off war debt during this period and this only complicated matters.

The air pollution from the 6 power plants, the diesel buses that replaced the electric trolleys and automobiles only added to the mix along with the large droplets of moisture created by the fog that collected the air pollution and allowed to settle on the ground were just a part of the mix that caused upwards of 12,000+ deaths and 100,000+ hospitalizations for the smog related hospitalizations and heart and lung illnesses.

The British government decided that Lignite coal was to be supplied for home heating due to the short supplies of Anthracite and Bituminous coal. The coal board sent people around with bags of slack coal to burn in thier fireplaces to heat their homes.

Lignite coal burned in a fireplace is a messy fuel and does not burn well unless it is burned with a forced draft combustion method.

Natural gas or propane is also a carbon based fuel polluter so do not assume it is not.

Buy a copy of DEATH IN THE AIR before you shut the door on burning good coal properly for heating.

Interesting.

Hello and good evening to you Bob,

I do not believe that a combustion analyzer can be used for a coal fired appliance because it is a solid fuel. Coal is tested at the mines or at the coal fired power plants by burning it to determine its BTU content.

A coal testing procedure mainly 2 types of testing Proximate Analysis and Ultimate Testing. The "Proximate Analysis" includes the testing of Moisture, Ash, Volatile Matter, Fixed Carbon.

I cannot upload the ultimate analysis page from the University of Kentucky but I think I can email it to you Bob.

Leon

In areas were electricity is unreliable oil can run both the heat and a backup generator.

What's the difference between heating oil and diesel besides road tax?

"For a difference to be a difference it has to make a difference."

As a fuel oil distributer, I remember the #2 grade of fuel is sold as diesel and heating oil. The additive that you place in the fuel (at the refinery or at the distribution point) is what makes a difference. and if you do not put any additive in the fuel then it is just #2 fuel oil. And a diesel engine can operate on #2 oil just fine. But as with any fuel, you can place additives in the fuel to get better performance from that fuel.

Similarly, Kerosene is considered #1 Fuel and will burn just fine in a oil burner for heating your home. However Jet fuel is also considered #1 Fuel. but don't put just any #1 fuel in your Jet's fuel tank. You want the Aviation fuel designation because that is refined to a higher standard. It must have a higher tolerance to the specification due to the nature of its use in aircraft engines. You can burn K1Jet fuel in a kerosene lamp or kerosene heater, and you can burn heating grade kero in a jet engine regularly, however you will experience some performance problems over time, and when you are at 30,000 feet you really don't want a little soot on your turbine blades to cause a problem.

And did you know that there are 2 different aviation fuels. One is combustable fuel oil K1Jet and the other is the flammable Gasoline based. Both will operate a jet engine however the Navy prefers the fuel oil type. Since they often operate aircraft on aircraft carriers, the safer combustable fuel oil based K1Jet is safer in the event of a crash on the deck of the carrier.

@ChrisJ said: So,

Does this mean overall, a diesel generator or diesel farm tractor should have no problem running #2 heating oil?

You are correct, you can operate a diesel engine on #2 heating oil. You want to purchase a good quality fuel oil and perhaps use an additive. Generators are often left off for long periods of time and therefore the fuel can degrade over time. There are other additives for fuel that stands in the tank for long periods of time. if however, you are finding that your fuel is in the tank for several years, you may want to operate the generator and use up that fuel in order to get fresh fuel about every three years.

You will use less electricity from the grid and not need to throw away fuel that you paid good money for years ago.

In the old days when I worked at an oil co we pulled the hose over and fill the trucks tanks with #2 oil. We had a barrel of additive to add.

Just don't get caught because your avoiding the road tax. #2 was legal for off road use but not on road but we did it for years with no issues.

Occasionally we would buy diesel at a station just to have a few slips if the tax man came around to audit the books.

This reminded me of an old story. When MA instituted the "sales tax law" there was a mechanical contractor in town who either was a lawyer, or his brother was a lawyer. They declared the sales tax "illegal"

Eventually the tax man showed up to audit there books and the contractors accountant said "look you have to comply" The contractor asked "what do i have to do". The accountant said," you have to give this guy all your books and a workspace with a desk to work at" This was the middle of summer.

They set him up in the boiler room that was 90-100 deg.

I guess he didn't stay too long

I guess I'll never understand why people would want to make things difficult for the representatives of the country that they are supposedly proud to be citizens of. Every citizen and every business in this great country make use of the public services it provides, and those cost money.

the tax laws are written by lawmakers who the public votes for, it’s not really “squeezing”. But now I’m edging too close to politics for my comfort.

I don’t think the auditors select the targets, and I’d bet the quality of the seating has nothing to do with it. But weirder things have surely happened