'70s energy conservation

mattmia2 · February 2022

If you are having trouble operating self storing storm windows then they are poorly installed or poor quality.

reggi · February 2022

Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it....
Thanks Dan

DanHolohan · February 2022

You're welcome!

Jamie Hall · February 2022

As @ChrisJ said, they never were a scam, although that is not to say that -- then as now -- inferior products weren't sold and installed. It is important that the regular sash be repaired if necessary, of course. The real scam is folks who come around and offer to replace all your old windows with something new and whizzy. This may be warranted on a lower quality build from about the mid ;50s onward, but unless the replacement is top of the line they won't outperform a good pre World War II window with a storm sash, and they certainly won't outlast it.

There has been one major innovation however, which in some circumstances can be wonderful: inside storm windows. There are several manufacturers now. They are designed to install from the inside, as the name implies, and be actually removed in the summer and stored, rather than left on as the triple hung combination storm-screen windows do. The advantage is that from the outside they are quite invisible, of course, and they have very thin frames so from the inside they are nearly so.

I use both, in various combinations.

ChrisJ · February 2022

Jamie Hall said:
As @ChrisJ said, they never were a scam, although that is not to say that -- then as now -- inferior products weren't sold and installed. It is important that the regular sash be repaired if necessary, of course. The real scam is folks who come around and offer to replace all your old windows with something new and whizzy. This may be warranted on a lower quality build from about the mid ;50s onward, but unless the replacement is top of the line they won't outperform a good pre World War II window with a storm sash, and they certainly won't outlast it.

There has been one major innovation however, which in some circumstances can be wonderful: inside storm windows. There are several manufacturers now. They are designed to install from the inside, as the name implies, and be actually removed in the summer and stored, rather than left on as the triple hung combination storm-screen windows do. The advantage is that from the outside they are quite invisible, of course, and they have very thin frames so from the inside they are nearly so.

I use both, in various combinations.

Be careful.
Don't forget, the windows I have which most are original are made pretty poorly. The upper sashes are fixed in place and there's no stop in between the upper and lower sash, so the lower rubs against the upper and they aren't exactly the straightest things in the world. So, you end up with a gap in between the two when they're closed.

A few have weights, most never did. I tightened up a few but they do not open so good now. I also caulked a few of the upper sashes.

But yeah, I wouldn't simply go by the "Pre WWII must be good" rule. Like everything, that depends.

But even in my case, as bad as those windows are, when I did the math I'd never see a return in replacing them since they have some pretty cheesy but functional storm windows over them.

mattmia2 · February 2022

Sash weights and balancing both sash are relatively new innovations. It isn't unusual for the upper sash to be fixed and the lower sash to use some sort of a latch to hold it open in very old windows.

Jamie Hall · February 2022

You have some of the really old windows? No stops, fixed upper sash, no weights? Those can be tricky to get tight. If they are badly worn -- which they may well be -- you may have some success with a very thin tape shim on the side channels which keep the lower sash in place on the outside. There should be a cam affair on the top of the upper sash which mates with a latch hook on the upper sash and pulls the two together when turned, Is it there?

mattmia2 · February 2022

Jamb liner type replacement sash might be a good option that is much more functional and somewhat cost effective for that situation.

ChrisJ · February 2022

Jamie Hall said:
You have some of the really old windows? No stops, fixed upper sash, no weights? Those can be tricky to get tight. If they are badly worn -- which they may well be -- you may have some success with a very thin tape shim on the side channels which keep the lower sash in place on the outside. There should be a cam affair on the top of the upper sash which mates with a latch hook on the upper sash and pulls the two together when turned, Is it there?

I guess old is relative.
1860s.

There's no cam and no hardware to hold the lower sash up. As far as slop, I don't even know what the guy that made these did because there's 1/4" strips added to the sashes on each side to kind of make them fit the opening. I don't know if he made them a 1/2" too small and then had an "oh crap" moment, or what but it's all incredibly old.

Since the first time I looked at them I've had a feeling that he had a friend that knew a guy..........

I can't complain too much, they're still there and they're better than an open hole in the wall.

mattmia2 · February 2022

Or given that sash may have been made by hand by a carpenter at that time they may have been salvaged from some other building.

ChrisJ · February 2022

mattmia2 said:
Or given that sash may have been made by hand by a carpenter at that time they may have been salvaged from some other building.

The house was built and owned by someone that was a carpenter, as was his brother.
So, there's a good chance.

But, since they're 2 over 2 with 12" x 24" panes they aren't much older age wise. If memory serves the swirl patterns also indicate it's cylinder glass.

mattmia2 · February 2022

Glass made before about the 1960's when float glass was invented is also irregular, it was made by squeezing molten glass between rollers, but not in the same way as glass that was blown as a cylinder then cut and flattened.

EBEBRATT-Ed · February 2022

There was another gizmo sold in the 70s to owners of commercial oil fired boilers. I never saw one on a residential job.

It was a tank made of plexiglass shaped like a pyramid that you filled with water. It sat under the burner on the floor. It had (I think) two plastic hoses connected to the burner, one to the fan discharge and one to the air intake on the burner.

I can't for the life of me remember the name of it. Hydro something I think it had something to do with hydrogen.

All the schools had them installed and it was supposed to make the burner run "cleaner"

I remember there was a big hub bub around here if they were "approved" by the state and if they could be installed

reggi · February 2022

I have calculated how MUCH conservation of electricity is required just to be within in .30¢ of last year's bill for the same time period... and I believe they already applied for a summer rate increase.Any Guesses? I'll try to attach it so it doesn't show in the post but you could open it..
If you guess be fair and don't open it until your guess is posted..(if it works.. I'm still new here)

Well though its not a HUGE bill as electric covers the basics and GAS does the heavy lifting...it's still a 25 percent reduction over last year and the DAILY Cost was reduced a Penny a day..

Conserve 25% and save .30 cents is insane....and I'm in Pennsylvania

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/editor/2w/rfe7wl5l1q28.jpeg

And the amount is mid 50's with cost and transport pretty even around .9 each

TAG · February 2022

Remember the vent stack heat exchangers? ---- fan and a bunch of tubes across the vent. They must have condensed ?

I was a nerd a bit later in the 80's and remember York came out with an engine coupled to a compressor and it used the engine for additional heat ....I liked York equipment back then. I was doing rehabs into rentals and used a lot of York -- they used to make this horizontal condensing unit. They bought the engine thing back .... something .... Therm. I can't even remember how it worked now

After that I figured best to stay away from York ... so I did another Amana HTM unit

actually had two of them at one point ... got good at fixing them

fixitguy · February 2022

My brother bought a HS Tarn multi-fuel boiler because with a new baby in the house he figured he could burn the diapers. The baby's 33 now and surprisingly he still has that boiler running. Now that he's getting old I think it's time to start burning oil again.

TheUpNorthState88 · August 2024

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1690488#Comment_1690488

I have discovered the beauty of those Intertherm hydronic electric baseboard heaters on accident on a quest to find something to heat my four seasons room that's not attached to central heating. I got the 83 inch long portable unit and loved it. I have since acquired more from people on Facebook Marketplace in various lengths as just a backup/supplemental heating, one lady gave me hers for free! They came in handy last winter when I experienced a leak at my attic expansion tank and couldn't operate my main boiler system.

I basically have setup a poor mans zoned heating with these around as I use them outside of boiler operation times when I want to some extra toast in the room I'm in, but not trying to heat the whole house up.

This one here is the first one I bought and when I switched out the power cord (something I did to all of them), there was a date, March 27th, 1973. These things are built to last!

ethicalpaul · August 2024

four seasons room that's not attached to central heating

That is called a "three seasons room" 😂 Also, old thread alert

DCContrarian · August 2024

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1690581#Comment_1690581

It's called a hybrid.

TheUpNorthState88 · August 2024

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1807677#Comment_1807677

There we go! I knew it involved some seasons. 😂🤣

PRR · August 2024

March 27th, 1973

I have a garage heater at least that old. 8"x10"x12" box, 230V, 5,000 Watts, fan-blown. GE! Found it at a welder's estate sale with about three different cords spliced together (I changed that to modern dryer cord+plug).

Of course it won't heat an uninsulated garage in Maine, and you could not afford to try for long, but it will make a warm corner where you can work without gloves for a bit.

'70s energy conservation

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