Life span of a new boiler vs older boiler

I assume you're talking about boilers in the 83% efficiency range, the kind where you light a fire underneath or within them and heat a kettle of water.

I think it's not true that new boilers only can live to be 12 years old. Some boilers seem to have trouble living very long under normal residential care patterns, but I am confident that my Peerless, manufactured in 2020 or so will live for 20-30 or more years.

I just keep its PH level around 11 to minimize corrosion and I don't introduce fresh oxygenated water. I can see how little rust it's producing in its water. I think a Weil-McClain could do about the same. My 1992 vintage Utica lasted at least to 2020 despite horrible maintenance. I don't know if their castings are the same today as that year.

I wouldn't bet a lot of money on a Burnham Independence model but I admittedly only have anecdotal evidence from a few cases brought to this forum that makes me think that.

Not as much iron in the newer boilers. We gave that up to gain some paltry efficiency gains years ago.

But there is no reason a new boiler should not last 20+ years if maintained properly.

As far as major appliances go, they are all junk now except for Speed Queen.

There is so much in there I wonder what par @DanHolohan disagrees with. I suspect it is the ph of 11 since that is getting in the realm of where it is likely to prime..

I suspect there are several factors interacting with the ph that determine if it will prime or not but that is beyond my knowledge of water chemistry.

If you have any ideas, I can throw them in my boiler to test it.

My old utica did surge after I added 8-way, but there was a ton of sediment mud in that boiler, so perhaps if a boiler additive breaks loose a bunch of that stuff and puts it in the water, that will cause surging.

I just came across the attached today.

@mattmia2 & @ratio

I agree. Most of it looks ok but the air conditiong and heat pumps at 10-15 years seems awfully short. Of course, I am in the NE where 20-, 30- & 40-year-old equipment if fairly common.

I suppose if we lived in Texas, Arzona, New Mexico or California the average age of ac units is much shorter

Idk, i've got several that are over 10 years. I generally replace them not when they fail but when they're so fouled up they stink and I can't effectively clean them. My two GE window shakers are surprisingly easy to take a part tho.

I had an old Panasonic 13500btu unit that came with the house. It was from 1992 or 3 I think. Worked great. The control board did have a failure and I used relay to control it from my wall thermostat for good number of years. It started finally having difficulty 2 or 3 years ago and replaced it. It also weighed a metric ton and while I could pick it up and carrying myself in my early 20's it seemed like it started getting heavier every year after while.

Whirlpool

Members, As for life span of boilers, since the 1970s there are a lot of changes in boiler metallurgy and construction to attain efficiency level requirements. Using past experience in determining boiler life span is not valid. As for boiler water treatment, PH levels and priming, you should consult with the boiler manufacturer. Even if their product does not have great performance, they know what you can and should not do with their units. Example, I have a large cast iron boiler manufacturer that allows a PH of 7.5 to 8.5 in many of their units. Another that permits 7.5 to 11. A fire tube field erected unit that I service allows PH 8.5 to 11. If you took chemistry in college you will remember that high PH will cause foaming under various conditions. PH levels in the range of 11 also may cause embrittlement to the metal. [ I know I have said this before] In addition, If you do not know what is in a chemical treatment product that you are using and do not under stand how it reacts in a specific boiler, you should not be using it. Leave the chemistry to the chemist.

Chrisj, You do not have to take college level chemistry. Foaming is influenced by heat, pressure and the presence of other substances in the water. Have you ever boiled pasta or rice.

I know nothing about the chemistry either, just reading some boiler water treatment articles

But seems like just generalizing pH level wouldn't be too accurate as it matters what you used to raise or lower the pH. The chemical makeup. You could have high pH but still have low alkalinity. And those differences can make a difference in whether it causes foaming at the same pH of say 11.

https://www.getchemready.com/water-facts/alkalinity-in-boiler-water/

When you’re maintaining a boiler, treatment specialists must maintain M (or T) alkalinity below a maximum level prescribed by the boiler’s manufacturer to help prevent foaming and carryover.

I'm sure there are plenty of other factors that are not simply described and condensed by just pH level numbers.

I repeat the offer to put almost any substance in my boiler which has sight glasses in the near boiler piping where I can see even the smallest amount of surging/"wet steam"**.

As @mattmia2 said above, high PH combined with oil definitely causes surging. But so does neutral PH with oil so that doesn't tell us very much about PH regarding surging. It might increase surging when oil is present. This agrees with what @ARobertson13 wrote in the reply just below mine that he wrote while I was typing this 😅

In my experiments I have found the following causes surging:

• oil
• SurgeX (but to be fair, it's possible there were other things going on in that test…but this is known: before I added SurgeX it wasn't surging, and after I added it, it was surging—badly)

I have never seen pressure increase the chances of surging.

I do have a difficult time with the notion that one company's cast iron container is going to act that much differently from some other company's cast iron container.

I don't have any way to know which boilers have changed their castings, but I can tell you that my Peerless 63 is freaking heavy.

** I really don't care for the term "wet steam" because the actual definition of wet steam is any steam created by the boiling of water at or near normal atmospheric pressure (ie: all residential boilers). Therefore all residential (and many commercial) boilers create wet steam exclusively. I prefer to refer to the presence of "surging" or "priming" which is (normally bubbly) water getting carried up into the main.

Members,

I was away. I did not say pressure increases the chance of foaming. I stated it as a factor. It is my understanding that the term "wet steam" refers to any steam with a 2% water droplet content.

So you're saying pressure decreases it? If it's a factor it must increase or decrease it I would think 🙂 But I didn't mean to direct that comment to you… I think I've heard it several times elsewhere. I've just never seen any evidence for it.

There are tons of definitions out there for wet steam, which is another reason why I don't like it—it's not very specific. But for residential steam purposes I allege that it doesn't matter…it's all pretty wet but it only becomes a problem when there is noticeable flowing water leaving the boiler, causing the level to drop and causing vents to spurt.

In my boiler when I'm looking at the steam I can see a tiny drop occasionally in the risers just above the boiler, and can never see any droplets above the header, unless I have purposely caused it to surge. See my videos linked below if you're interested to see what I see. My steam certainly has droplets in it I can't see. It certainly forms droplets from condensation as it travels (mostly on the pipe walls). It certainly doesn't matter if it's 1%, 3%, or 5%.

Here is a typical definition, but there are so many different ones, who can say? https://savree.com/en/encyclopedia/dry-and-wet-steam

Or I should say more than a 2% water content.

Sorry to be pedantic, but steam is 100% water content 😅

Water exists on Earth as a solid, a liquid, and a gas.

Water can also exist as a gas as a vapor below it's boiling point.

None of this has anything to do with the OP's question though. It would honestly be best to start a totally separate thread to discuss this stuff.

All you have to do is look at a 1950s-1960s boiler and you will see a lot more CI and weight in the older boilers. The new boilers are lighter with less Iron. So, an older boiler compared to a newer boiler with the same rating and input the older boiler is not pushed (fired) as hard (BTU input/lb of CI) so they lasted longer and expansion and contraction happened slower. The new boiler have slightly better efficiency.