TurboMax 30-3 or HTP Superstor Ultra-Max MSSU-45 Help!
I have a decision to make and am looking for any guidence. I currently have a HTP SuperStor 40 Gallon DHW indirect that is 30 years old, yes, 30 years. Never had any issues. It is now not making enough hot water and also blowing off out of the T-P valve every other day.
My Boiler is a oil fired Weil Mcclain cast iron with Riello head rated at 180K BTU. We like to keep our DHW at 130-140 deg.
I am being told that the current "cat's meow" would be the TurboMax 30-3 or 50-3 and the HTP SuperStor's are not what they used to be......HTP has a new model that is called the Ultra-MAX model MSSU-45N. Stainless tank and Stainless HX coil.
I will add that I have recently reached out to HTP for info and discussion and they have been very difficult to get any response or information of substance.
Has anyone had personal experiance with these 2 choices? What are your recomendations? Any advise, direction or information would greatly be appreciated. Thanks!
Comments
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Select the job based on the better contractor, not the equipment.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Compare DHW production based on boiler SWT. The reverse Indirects tend to need high tank temperatures to give you good DHW production.
Some indirect brands are bumping up the coil sizes to work better with lower SWT, especially when paired with condensing boilers. Maybe that is the case with the ultra max?
If the 40 has served you well, either of those should perform as well or better for DHW capacity.Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream
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an interesting tank here, an example of a lot of coil capacityBob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
I agree that HTP has had to make changes based on budget. Overall from my experience they've been very good, the numbers have been spot on, and the warranty (though a little bit of a pain) has been honored.
I want to try a TurboMax but no one reps them in my area so that steers me away.
Tom
Montpelier Vt0 -
The corrugated heat exchanger in the new HTP MSSU is new. Never be the guinea pig. For the same reason you don't use corrugated flex drain pipe under your sink, I feel like deposits will collect in the corrugations over time and be a pain to clean/flush as it's not a smooth bore. (edit: guess they claim the opposite: Lightweight, corrugated stainless steel Super Flex Heat Exchanger allows the coil to flex, minimizing scale buildup and prolonging tank life). Not sure why they used the word lightweight, as if anyone ever cared about the weight and rather has a negative connotation.
If you've been happy with your tank for all these years, my personal recommendation is to stick with the tried and true HTP SSU-45N. No built-in electronics to fail and have trouble getting in the future. Just a widely available, easily replaceable aquastat for your boiler.
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Thank you all for your comments and advise. I am still undecided and talking to different plumbers and seeking additional comments on the TurboMax vs HTP Ultra-Max. Thanks.0
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I suspect that is the same stainless flex we use as solar piping material. Which is really nothing more than un-jacketed CSST tube. If so it is very thin walled tube, I’d sure keep an eye on Chlorides.dko said:The corrugated heat exchanger in the new HTP MSSU is new. Never be the guinea pig. For the same reason you don't use corrugated flex drain pipe under your sink, I feel like deposits will collect in the corrugations over time and be a pain to clean/flush as it's not a smooth bore. (edit: guess they claim the opposite: Lightweight, corrugated stainless steel Super Flex Heat Exchanger allows the coil to flex, minimizing scale buildup and prolonging tank life). Not sure why they used the word lightweight, as if anyone ever cared about the weight and rather has a negative connotation.
If you've been happy with your tank for all these years, my personal recommendation is to stick with the tried and true HTP SSU-45N. No built-in electronics to fail and have trouble getting in the future. Just a widely available, easily replaceable aquastat for your boiler.
The corrugations help assure turbulent flow but come with a high pressure drop also.
.Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
Is your boiler piped and sized to accept the Turbomax?
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there isn't anything that can go wrong with the tank that would cause the tank t&p to blow off. a problem with a mixing valve or dhw expansion tank could.
if the boiler's pressure relief is blowing off the tank could cause that but other things could too. maybe your problem is not the tank.
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they used to use a copper nickel coil and clamed the expansion helped dislodge deposits.
just noticed i'm answering year old questions…
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I currently have a US Boiler Alliance SL50 indirect water heater and it's connected to my US Boiler Burnham ES2-5 model ES25BNI-T boiler. I spoke to someone at Turbomax and the guy did a lot of calculations using the specs of the boiler and the number of baths and said my boiler can accept either the Turbomax 30-3 or 50-3. The specs of my boiler can be found at either of the following links.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Burnham-ES25BNI-T-ES2-5-103000-BTU-Output-High-Efficiency-Cast-Iron-Boiler-NG
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no one ever complained that their hot water tank was too big…
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The draw back to the turbo max is that it is an instantaneous hot water heater. Meaning that the tank is full of boiler hot water and the domestic hot water is in the coils. Similar to a tankless hot water heater only its external to the boiler. To make sure that you can get the domestic hot water recovery your boiler cannot be used as a cold start as it will take a long time to recover the boiler side hot water. The thermostat in the tank is sensing tank temperature, not domestic hot water temperature like a SS45. So In the summer time your boiler will be firing off just to maintain tank temperature. you can't let the tank get cold and expect to jump in the shower and get hot water. There will be no heat to transfer to the domestic water if you let the tank tank cool. Turbomax is a really good product. Probably a little to good for residential but since i've only installed them in commercial applications I can speak for the small ones. And they are heavy.
On the other hand the Superstor indirect is a very good product. its simple and they last. They are light weight and efficient. With the proper size boiler they have excellent recovery rates. I can speak from experience. I had (past tense due to divorce) a superstor SS60 and with 2 showers and 5 bodies taking showers in less than a 45 minute time frame I saw no drop in hot water temperature. And I didn't have a mixing valve on my tank at the time. I like to experiment so this was a good test.
To sum it up they are both really good but you current set up works and it might need to be tweeked to support the turbomax.
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The Turbomax needs full 1.25" supply and return, which means the boiler manifolds must be at least 1.25". The SS is probably 1" S & R.
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Of course a boiler can be cold start with a Turbomax. The boiler responds to recover just like a standard indirect. Tank temperature is set at or near the boiler limit temperature. Thats why it needs a mixing valve on the domestic hot. Heat loss from the tank isn't any different than a standard indirect.
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Thanks for your detailed response. Please forgive my ignorance about all of this stuff, but part of your response confused me. You said this about the Turbomax: "In the summer time your boiler will be firing off just to maintain tank temperature." Won't my boiler be firing off in the summertime anyway with the Turbomax since the DHW comes from the boiler and the Turbomax effectively acts as a pass through for the DHW from the boiler? I also thought Turbomax tank just serves as a backup in case the boiler can't provide enough DHW at a particular time. Are you saying that the SuperStor will be more efficient than the Turbomax? The plumber I selected basically said the installed price of the SuperStor SSU-45N and the Turbomax 30-3 are almost the same. Since the price is the same which one would you choose?
The thing that made me hesitant about the HTC SuperStor SSU-45N was the negative reviews I saw on the Home Depot listing here: SuperStor 45 Gal. Indirect Water Heater Storage Tank SSU-45N - The Home Depot. Of course those negative reviews could be because people tried to install the water heater themselves and screwed it up.
According to the Burnham ES2 spec sheet, the ES25 has 1.25" supply and return. Hopefully that's what you mean. I'm assuming that means that my boiler is compatible with the Turbomax which is what they also told me. The SuperStor brochure says that the SSU-45N needs boiler inlet and outlet port sizes of 1".
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