Feasibility to Relocate Steam Radiator

jpolewczak · July 2023

Hi all,

I'm renovating a room in my house in New Jersey where we have all one-pipe steam radiators. One of the problems that most older homes have is the lack of closets. In the attached photo you can see there's an alcove where the riser comes through the floor.

The previous owners had build shelves in this alcove. Ideally, I'd like to make this as close to a closet as I can get. Right now the riser comes up, passes through a shut-off valve and directly into the radiator.

What I am proposing to do is to change the direction of the run after the riser and add a 45 degree turn near the proposed location, which I believe is a better practice than keeping the existing run and adding a 90 degree turn with even more pipe after.

When all is said and done, this would be closed up with a step above the pipe with fully removable access panels so that the valve can be accessed.

I'm fairly confident this would require a permit given the addition of piping, but the question is whether this is feasible at all.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

ethicalpaul · July 2023

It's feasible, but horizontal runs of one-pipe steam must have some slope away from the radiator. Does your current situation cause any pinging or banging? That is the concern if you give the water any place to collect in the steam pipes.

Also your current radiator's vent is on the wrong side.

jpolewczak · July 2023

This has been under a cover for years, how I didn't notice the vent is beyond me.

Definitely aware about the slope required -- would not be an issue. Generally only get banging on one other radiator in the house and limited pinging otherwise.

Appreciate the feedback!

Mad Dog_2 · July 2023

I wouldn't worry about a Permit but you can always check with the A.H.J. Mad Dog 🐕

gerry gill · August 2023

My experience has been that the longer the horizontal pipe immediately in front of a radiator, the more noise created. I would recommend that if you try this and it makes banging or gurgling to max out the size of the horizontal pipe to the same size as the inlet to the radiator and use a reducing elbow at the top of the vertical pipe.

Jamie Hall · August 2023

Quite so, @gerry gill . The one radiator I have which bangs sometimes is blessed with about 10 feet of much too small (1 inch) pipe with two elbows in it and almost no slope. And it is a BIG radiator. I have no idea what the dead men were thinking.... and I'm too lazy to fix it.

STEAM DOCTOR · August 2023

In addition to the above, I would suggest moving the shutoff valve to right next to the radiator. Shutoff valve is place where you tend to get bottlenecks of steam and water. Or you could just eliminate the shutoff valve.

KC_Jones · August 2023

I would suggest trying to use 90° elbows in the horizontal run. It give you more flexibility with slope, swing joints, and alignment. I moved one in the process of remodeling my daughters bedroom and this is how I did it. So far quiet as a church mouse. The vertical riser is 1" pipe, but I upsized all the horizontal pipes to 1 1/4" to help ensure adequate room for the steam and condensate to coexist.

Mad Dog_2 · August 2023

I WANT that Corner radiator KC....I'm in love 😍 🥰 💘 with it! Was it in your house or you picked it up somewhere? Really Neato...Mad Dog 🐕

KC_Jones · August 2023

Mad Dog_2 said:
I WANT that Corner radiator KC....I'm in love 😍 🥰 💘 with it! Was it in your house or you picked it up somewhere? Really Neato...Mad Dog 🐕

My wife found it on Facebook Marketplace. $250.00. We drove 3 hours to get it and it was totally worth it. I haven't seen one since for under $1000.00.

gerry gill · August 2023

Thats a bad **** radiator KC!! i'm jealous

Mad Dog_2 · August 2023

What state? Mad Dog 🐕

jpolewczak · August 2023

Hey all,

Just wanted to pop back in and say thank you to everyone who posted for all your advice! I did get the blessing of my AHJ before I touched anything.

Ended up getting a little more complicated when turning the radiator, had to remove a plug which took a lot of patience, a good helping of PB Blaster, and some swearing and praying before the righteousness of a sawzall did the rest.

Before:

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/editor/zk/mdbkccsfypct.jpg

After:

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/editor/ik/80oct3imxcr3.jpg

Once I test it for leaks, next is building out that alcove into a usable closet on a raised platform which was never possible with the radiator where it was.

Hope I can be a little bit of help on this forum to return the favor in the future.

Thanks again!

Steamhead · August 2023

Might want to relocate the vent on that rad to its proper place, which should be somewhere in the lower half of the end section. There should be a raised round place there similar to the one on top where the vent now is. With the vent where it is, that rad won't heat completely and the vent won't last as long as it should.

mattmia2 · August 2023

I know it is a ilittle late now, but do you have access under the floor, could you have just moved where the runnout comes through the floor?

jpolewczak · August 2023

@Steamhead if I can, I will, but I don't imagine the plug is going to come out easy after what I just went through with the larger plug. The vent is at least on the correct side, which is an improvement from where it's been previously.

@mattmia2 that would have been ideal, and a great suggestion, but I didn't really have the wiggle room without replacing the riser, which was absolutely not an option. Plus, I wouldn't have been too keen on pulling up that floor to run it.

leonz · August 2023

Do not nail or screw that platform for the closet to anything!!!!!

I wonder how much easier it would have been for you to use 3/4"
refrigerant grade copper tubing to feed the radiator as you would
have been able to run it along the interior wall and around the corner
using a spring form tubing bender to feed the tubing to the radiator??

JUGHNE · August 2023

3/4" is pretty small for counter flow steam in a horizontal pipe.

mattmia2 · August 2023

That horizontal reducer is an issue, it will trap condensate in all of the larger pipe past it and likely cause some water hammer and possibly slow heating of that radiator. The increase has to happen vertically like by using a reducing elbow where the pipe comes out of the floor. Or you can find an eccentric reducer.

jpolewczak · August 2023

@mattmia2 this is a really good point and being as though I've been staring at this long enough, I had realized the potential for this but haven't executed a solution yet. Just limited by what I know I'm capable of here, I'm looking to move the reducer closer to the radiator itself leaving less potential for condensate in the pipe run.

mattmia2 · August 2023

Just get an eccentric reducer. They are expensive but not compared to reworking a lot of it if you aren't comfortable changing the ell where it comes out of the floor to a reducing ell.

What I would do would be to replace the ell and point it to the left and run the piping along the walls or point it at a 45 and use another 45 at the front left corner.

Danny Scully · August 2023

The perils of concentrically reducing on the horizontal:

https://youtube.com/shorts/H33_NAOYAaA?feature=share

Steamhead · August 2023

jpolewczak said:
@Steamhead if I can, I will, but I don't imagine the plug is going to come out easy after what I just went through with the larger plug. The vent is at least on the correct side, which is an improvement from where it's been previously.

No need to do that. Drill the opening out and tap it 1/8" pipe thread. If there is an existing plug, do the same, being extra careful to drill exactly in the center. Then chase the threads with the tap, plug the existing opening, and you're good to go.

leonz · August 2023

Please be careful when measuring and cutting for the box frame for the floor
of the closet. If you uses 2 by 8 or 2 by 10 lumber for the frame that will
provide you with enough height to create a slot for the pipe and ball valve.

It would be best to only make the floor frame on 3 sides being the side walls and front to allow you to lift the floor up if and when you need to shut the valve.

Depending on the dimensions You could use 1 by 6 lumber for the floor.

Please do not hate me for asking but why is it there are no pipe unions, knife gate valves or radiator valves in your plumbing?

Feasibility to Relocate Steam Radiator

Comments

Categories