Using Hot Spring Water for Radiant
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
Comments
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So you pull the hot spring water out, through the pex and then it returns back to the source? Any pictures or diagrams? Sounds very cool . Mad Dog 🐕0
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I've done this with a local hot spring. Used a marine grade FPHX and a stainless LV pump. With 130 degree water, you may be able to use the flow directly. Some thermal sources have enough flow to work without a pump.
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Exactly. There's a 500 gallon tank about 150 yards away that serves multiple uses. Large mineral baths and steam rooms. Immersed in the tank is a HX for DHW for showers.Mad Dog_2 said:So you pull the hot spring water out, through the pex and then it returns back to the source? Any pictures or diagrams? Sounds very cool . Mad Dog 🐕
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab0 -
Awesome....The closest I've seen to this was a Consult I did 20 years ago on the Mountain overlooking The Mighty Hudson River Northside of the Tappan Zee Bridge. Built in to the side of the mountain in early 1800s, it had a stream running through the basement and a Huge (For the property) old block wall fish tank. It was about 8 feet wide, 10 feet deep and 15 feet long. The cold spring water flowed right through it. It was built for your very own Fulton Street Fish Market 🐟. The guy was a Professional, well known Bluegrass musician and he had just picked the house up. I Gave him the NYS Fish Hatchery info and told him he could stock it with live trout and eat em. He was very excited. Hope he did....Mad Dog 🐕
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Couldn't raise trout in 170 degree water, which is what the outflow is at the Goldmeyer hot spring. The property was owned by a prospector ( Mr. Goldmeyer) who was looking for gold, but found very hot water. The native Americans had known about the hot spring for many years. It's the last old growth forest remaining in the Cascades and some of the firs have a 15ft. diameter. A grant from Paul Allen preserved the land. It's a 4.5 mile hike to the site and well worth it. www.goldmeyer.org1
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Cool story....There is a Famous Thoroughbred Racehorse named Mr Prospector....maybe named for him? Mad Dog 🐕0
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Goldmeyer Hot Springs looks like an interesting place. I checked out the website. However, there are probably over one million acres of old growth forest in the Cascades. Several National Parks and Wilderness areas.
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Have Grizzlies returned up there.. heard there is only Black Bears Cougars and Deer 🦌 up that way. Mad Dog 🐕
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Hi @Alan (California Radiant) Forbes , Sounds like you are on the right track. I’d want to see the water report, just in case something strange were there, but it sounds good. Glad to help if you want 😉
Yours, Larry0 -
WMno57-the old growth that remains is in the national forests and national parks where it can't be harvested.
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This sounds like an easy job for PEX tubing; I don't see any issues from that perspective. Talk about a sustainable heating system!
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Some photos showing: the dirt road that takes you down to the hot springs. With our very wet spring, my truck had a hard time navigating the deteriorated road. It took 2 hours to travel 14 miles.
The shell and tube heat exchanger to heat the floors of one of the buildings. I have since found out that they chose this type of HX because they were afraid that any sediment or debris from the hot springs would clog a flat plate HX. This type of HX is commonly used for heating swimming pools with systems that have a high ΔT and is not appropriate for what it's used for here with 130°F spring water. The system doesn't perform.
You can see the 500 gallon tank with multiple inlets and outlets. Inside, there's a HX for the DHW in the bath house.
The last picture shows the piping and setpoint control for the hot tubs that keeps the water temperature at a perfect 108°F.
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab0 -
Sure looks like a lot of scale from the water? it must have some high TDS or hardness? most ground water does.
A properly sized shell and tube would be best, or better yet a large smooth coil indirect.
Heatflo can build a high performance dual coil tank, 100' of coil! that would give you exchange close to a plate type HX. An indirect is basically a supersized shell and tube HX.
If you called them with the HX spec you are looking to get, maybe they build a custom tank.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
This is what we used to call "geothermal" before that term was misappropriated for "ground source". So what are we calling this type of heat now?1
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It is still called geothermal. Ground source heat pumps are also correctly called geothermal because they draw energy from within the earthbio_guy said:This is what we used to call "geothermal" before that term was misappropriated for "ground source". So what are we calling this type of heat now?
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Alan (California Radiant) Forbes - this looks like a very interesting project and heating the floors via direct flow or using a HX appears quite viable. Have you considered the fact that this project is likely eligible for the federal Investment Tax Credit for geothermal energy? The project, if structured correctly, could qualify for a tax credit subsidy at least 30% of eligible costs and possibly more depending on certain factors. That would certainly help fund the project! Let me know if you'd like more information on this - happy to help.
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Reminds me of a movie theater on Long Island that sucked up ground water and blew air over it for space cooling. Then they put it back in the ground with wells in the municipal parking lot connected with hoses. I was the inspector who found it during a village repaving job. Water everywhere.
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Nothing better than FREE HEAT !
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Minor note. The Romans did this about 2,000 years ago, in a place now called Bath, England… among other places.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
Hello Alan,
The double coil hot water heat exchanger offered by W.W. Grainger that is a replacement for hot pressure washers may be an option for the spa folks to use if it can go in the pit and be submerged.
Item number 25FX89
It is a long circular steel coil with full length interior coil in its entire length giving you a great deal of heat exchange.
It is $745.68 plus tax and as it is small in diameter you would be able to submerge it horizontally.
Leon
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The hot spring water bubbles up next to a stream and has been cordoned off to be pumped to the storage tank to provide heat and hot water to all the buildings.
The Esselen indians settled the area over 1,000 years ago, supplanted by Spanish missionaries in the 18th century. All have used the hot springs for its healing properties.
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab1 -
Warm Floors? Michael Luttrel? Is he still in the game?
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
Now called Warm Corp. West. I believe Michael is still there, last I heard.
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab0
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