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weil mclain ultra 155 setting help?

eugd
eugd Member Posts: 48
My boiler keeps on modulating all the time ever since it had its latest maintenance.
The boiler was maintained in August 2018 full cleaning and changing of all the gaskets by a contractor. Now boiler is modulating when heat demand is needed and not producing heat enough heat. Except hot water through a indirect tank available any time. it is a three zone system but both zones of baseboard heating house is hit or miss during times of heat demand since the maintenance and boiler modulates several times during the day. With no errors codes given to show or anything under the error menu. Both Sensors were replaced on the return and supply to rule-out faulty equipment. Air bleed the zones does not resolve the issues or manual restart does not stop the modulation and start the heating process. the boiler does not state any error codes but will show many several auto restart counter values. I have a question about the circulator settings under the boiler priority menu, for boiler priority only pump 1 is on, for boiler priority 2 pump two is on and for boiler priority both pump two and three are on. attached are pictures of the boiler to see the setup and a few pictures programming fields of the any help would be greatly appreciated.












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Comments

  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 3,802
    I was gonna say maybe the tech adjusted the ODR parameters but target temp is 190 so its probably not connected.
    Temp diff is good through the boiler but its running both DHW and space heat.
    Priority pump 1 on for DHW priority. Pumps 2 and 3 priority off for space heat.
    Do you mean short cycling rather than modulation?
    What's the temp diff through the boiler with the space heat running only? Run them separately and together. Write it down.
    Those soft lockouts could be supply and return temps too close or return temp too high.
    Has anyone checked the supply and return temps on the space heat circuits because it seems like it is air bound.
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    I think the technician had no clue about my boiler and it’s setting even though he said he did. When he left my kids were scolding there hands with hot water because he must of reset back to factory settings. Thankfully he picked up his phone after he left to talk me through how to lower the hot water temp. Ill shut off pumps and post the results tonight. Thanks for your response
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    I called Weil-McLain tech support today. Lucly spoke with someone who went over settings on the boiler even though I’m not a plumber. Turns out the guy that came over and serviced the boiler did not turn on all the pumps i priority 2 and 3 and set my limiting temp at 190 instead of 180 for the baseboard. As a result the boiler was fighting itself with the pumps by pushing and pulling out of sequence resulting in the boiler cooling it self for prolonged durations. Now it’s much quieter and keeping the fist floor warmer at least for now. Thanks for all the information
    HVACNUT
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    edited November 2019
    Started up the unit and having issues again. Last year after speaking to technician at Weil McLain he told me how to program the boiler now having issues again. The boiler is modulating when heat demand is needed giving me barley any heat. I have a indirect storage water tank and two zones of baseboard heating for two floors. Running through a toca valve and relay. I notice that pump 1 is on the majority of the time even when heat demand is the only one needed.


    Boiler priority 1 set on DHW (direct)
    Pump 1 is only on. Pump 2 and 3 are off
    Temp is set on 125

    Boiler priority two
    Pump 1 is off
    Pump 2 and 3 are on.
    Temp is set on 130 to 180

    Boiler priority three is off

    Time to time I get a quick red open supply return error. Both sensors were changed last year.
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    Open return then purge of system results in modulation
  • Jean-David Beyer
    Jean-David Beyer Member Posts: 2,665
    Boiler priority 1 set on DHW (direct)
    Pump 1 is only on. Pump 2 and 3 are off
    Temp is set on 125

    Boiler priority two
    Pump 1 is off
    Pump 2 and 3 are on.
    Temp is set on 130 to 180

    Boiler priority three is off


    I have an Ultra 3 80,000BTU/hr unit. Primary/secondary setup for the heating zones, but direct for the indirect. Zoned by circulators.

    Boiler priority 1 is set DHW direct, pump 1 (for the indirect) is on
    Pump 2 and 3 are off. Temp is set to default: 190F
    .
    Your setting of 125 seems awfully low for an indirect hot water tank. In fact, I would not be surprised if the priority 1 heat call were always on, and your system would provide heat to the house only after the priority demand times out (30 minutes by default). After the 30 minutes, the priority 1 would reassert itself and the boiler would go back to heating the hot water again. Setup this way should drive you crazy.

    For heating zones, (priority 2, radiant zone slab at grade) pump 1 is off, pump2 (the boiler circulator) is on. Temperature varies from 80F to 130F depending on outside temperature.

    Your range of 130F to 180F may be appropriate depending on the amount of baseboard you have. If you have enough baseboard, it may be possible to lower these temperatures and allow condensing to occur, raising the efficiency of your setup.

    For the other zone (priority 3, fin tube baseboard), 1 is off, 2 is on, and pump 4 (controlled by a relay) is on. That heats from 120F to 150F, depending on the outside temperature. Actually, if both heating zones are calling for heat, pumps 2, 3, and 4 are all on, but the baseboard does not get water as hot as it needs, since it is using the radiant reset curve (priority), though it gets some.
    eugd
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    edited November 2019
    Called Weil McLain and was lucky to speak with a good guy that helped explain that since I have a relay by boiler priority two only pump two should be on. For my setup. Boiler priority one only pump 1 should be on.
    When I set the DHW on boiler priority 1 higher than 130 the hot water is too hot and burns there hands. The issue was not hot water issues it was heat since I started it up this season.
    After speaking with the tec. He thinks The problem is that my boiler tends to revert back to factory settings anytime I have a power outage. Which makes sense because had a black out in my area just before I needed to start the boiler for heat. My experience with The high efficiency boiler It’s been frustrating the regular less efficient model I never had issues with in the past. Hopefully that resolves the problem until the next time
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    Well I just can’t win with this unit.
    After calling Weil McLain and figuring out that I only needed boiler priority 2 circulator 2 on to run the taco relay. Everything was running well heat when needed. Today I saw that the boiler was giving me a error of system supply error and it’s open? The it goes into a post purge
    I had both sensors on the unit switched last year just in case.
    Any one know wtf is wrong with it now? I usually bleed the boiler when i get the return supply error and it resolves it. But for this error I bleed it and manual restored but the boiler is still giving me a red error?
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    Well today the both return and supply sensors say open instead of showing a temp. Boiler providing heat. I ordered two new hopefully that will resolve the issues. Any thing specific sealant to put on the threads? Or just unscrew and screw them in.
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    I honestly hate this boiler. It was working fine since I changed the return/supply sensors but now it’s back to being annoying
    Constantly pre/post purging with heat demand. The. Getting lock outs

    Priority 1 DHW (indirect tank) only pump 1 on set at 140
    Priority 2 on through toco relay only pump 2 FTB. is on set at 180

    Temp doesn’t clime over 66 the. Purges.
    Why is this system so fickle
  • icy78
    icy78 Member Posts: 391
    edited December 2019
    On both screens, the system supply reads lower than the system return......
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    edited December 2019
    I raised my DHW to 170, default is 190

    It has helped but still getting lockouts any suggestions? System stays on modulation with low heat output very frustrating
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,667
    Have you/ your installed tried to get a Rep from Weil McLain out there to look at this?
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    Problem is that I had it installed through Lowe’s 5 years ago and the company that installed it doesn’t exists anymore. Also all the problems started after I had it cleaned 2 years ago. Since the I have one guy after another who doesn’t understand the system and does the same thing call Weil McLain tech support and troubleshoot the system. I can do that without getting charged each time
    I’m just hoping someone understands this system on this forum. Had helps me set the right valves.
    Last night moved the dhw to 170 and that helped. But last times the water was too hot for my kids. Washing.
  • DZoro
    DZoro Member Posts: 1,047
    Can you take a pic with as much piping and pumps in one picture. Back up as much as possible. Note which direction the pump arrows are pointing.
    You have a flow issue, possibly a pump not working or wrong flow direction.
    D
  • DZoro
    DZoro Member Posts: 1,047
    From what I can gather, the boiler controls the Green pump to the domestic. Which circ number is that one?
    The other pump the boiler controls is the black system pump. Which circ. number is that one?
    The other 2 pumps next to the taco pump control are controlled by the taco pump controller.
    Do all the pumps have internal check valves?
    It's hard to see the exact piping layout and maybe better to draw it out on paper and label flows and pump #'s.
    Yes that is too hot for domestic hot water, apparently there is no mixing valve on the tank, turn it back down to normal. It's not the issue.
    D
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    When I have the guys start of the system this year was because the hot water and cold water or mixing and turns out it was because the boiler must’ve reset itself after a power outage and all the pumps were turned on and that was causing hot water with a cold water cold water hot water so I don’t know if there’s a check though I don’t know if they thought ahead only check valve I see is on The water supply coming into the boiler. No mixer valve I can see
  • Jean-David Beyer
    Jean-David Beyer Member Posts: 2,665
    When I have the guys start of the system this year was because the hot water and cold water or mixing and turns out it was because the boiler must’ve reset itself after a power outage and all the pumps were turned on and that was causing hot water with a cold water cold water hot water so I don’t know if there’s a check though I don’t know if they thought ahead only check valve I see is on The water supply coming into the boiler. No mixer valve I can see


    I have an Ultra-3 and it maintains its settings even during power outages. One outage was 6 1/2 days during Storm Sandy. When the power came back up, the settings, including the reset curves, were as they were before the power went out. Only the time-of day clock was off.
  • DZoro
    DZoro Member Posts: 1,047
    Your system supply is 21* colder than your system return. That should not be. Possible the sensors are wired wrong ( 2 black and white sensors) . The sensor above the black pump (system pump) is the return sensor. Follow the wiring to make sure it is wired accordingly. The other black and white sensor on the right hand side of the boiler is your supply sensor check that wiring to the system supply.
    Try to get a picture above the black return pump with piping behind the pressure tank.
    Can you confirm if the black pump operates? If so when does it?
    D
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    All sensors were replaced and new. I can double check the wiring back to the control unit. Will snap a pic in a bit of the black pump. And yes works. You can feel the hum on it.
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    Hope this angle helps
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    I lowered the DHW to 160. Because I had 28 restarts in a 12 hour period. Hopefully that reduces the multiple lockouts errors
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    edited December 2019
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
  • DZoro
    DZoro Member Posts: 1,047
    Did you change the black and white sensors? If so is there a chance that they got switched around? The boiler seems to think so.
    The return side according to the boiler is hotter than the supply, which is backwards.
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    I can swap the wires in the unit control. When the sensors were changed the sensors were changed on the pipe site the original installed wires. Will do it and in a bit and see if it works.
  • icy78
    icy78 Member Posts: 391
    edited December 2019
    Did you miss this from a couple days ago?

    > @icy78 said:
    > On both screens, the system supply reads lower than the system return......
    DZoroeugd
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    I flipped the wires and now the supply is lower than the return on the sensors. I’m going to let it run and see hopefully that the final touch.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 6,460
    If you would sketch out your piping and note where the sensors are it would help. It looks like someone has over complicated this.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    DZoro
  • DZoro
    DZoro Member Posts: 1,047
    Supply should be warmer than the return
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    Before I flipped the wires the return was hotter than supply. Maybe that’s why I got all the resets. It’s been a hour and no resets. Before it would be at least 1 by now. I’m going give it a few hours and check again. It would be amazing if that’s the problem because that’s was the originally installed that why and had a few technicians that checked it and swapped out this and that and never checked the wiring.
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    Pic of temp stats. So far no lockout resets👍
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    The red circle sensor is on the supply side of the boiler and the red circle sensor is on the return side of the boiler.

    I flipped the wires on the sensor terminals that were originally installed. They must of has them reversed

    Boiler is working with out locking out and holding the temp with out purging or locking out
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    Well it’s been 6 hours without a lockout or restating error since I flipped the wire on the sensors. The boiler actually goes into standby with out purging itself to cool down or modulating when call for heat. Thank you fellas for all the help especially icy78. Thanks for pointing out that I should check the wording on the the sensor at the control unit.
    icy78DZorokcopp
  • DZoro
    DZoro Member Posts: 1,047
    Somehow the wiring got turned around, your old sensors are probably good keep them for future use.
    D
  • eugd
    eugd Member Posts: 48
    In over a 12 hour period I had zero restarts. The night before i had at least 40. Over the last 5 years it’s was a headache. Once again gentlemen thanks for the advice. The original installer who installed it must of did it. Because when they changed the sensors they just did it at the pipes they never did anything at the control unit.
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 1,208
    op,
    did you say these issues started with the last service ?
    if so, I'm not sure I would have them back.
    Jean-David Beyer
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