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Chest freezer

Ere12Ere12 Posts: 1Member
Does anyone have any recommendations for any outdoor chest freezer? I only have a side by side fridge that can't hold frames. There's no room inside for a freezer and no garage/ outbuilding/ covered porch to put one either. I was looking for one that I could put on a small stand (to keep underside dry) and put on a back exposed porch. I can make a cover for in out of a BBQing cover if need be. But I need it to work outside in both winter and summer to store excess honey deeps.

Barring that, how do most of the hobby beeks store excess frames?

Advice is appreciated.

Comments

  • nibsnibs Posts: 351Member
    You will probably have no problem with any decent chest freezer.
    Have seen several used year round outside in winters that can go to 25 below.
    We are using grandmas 60 yr old freezer outside, since we go south for the winter, we unplug it and clean it when we leave.
  • pecmsgpecmsg Posts: 893Member
    Without controlling the ambient temperature its a crap shoot if it will work all winter or not. Outdoor equipment has the extra controls needed to insure full time operation.
  • Solid_Fuel_ManSolid_Fuel_Man Posts: 1,690Member
    I've always wondered about typical consumer refrigeration products and outdoor temps. No crank case heaters, and open condensers. Seems like a recipe for hydra-locking a compressor and/or and oil-less compressor. Neither of which mean survival!
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC, and Controls
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Posts: 11,073Member
    Depends. On where you are. If you're down south, that's where the freezer belongs anyway. If you're further north, where it freezes, most residential type freezers have a low temperature below which they either just won't work -- or they'll self-destruct, as @Solid_Fuel_Man suggests.
    Jamie

    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.

    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • nibsnibs Posts: 351Member
    Our freezer has been left plugged in at 14F (-10C) and continues to chug along year after year.
    Why would any freezer run in sub freezing ambient temps, after all they do have thermostats?
  • pecmsgpecmsg Posts: 893Member
    nibs said:

    Our freezer has been left plugged in at 14F (-10C) and continues to chug along year after year.
    Why would any freezer run in sub freezing ambient temps, after all they do have thermostats?

    Door frame heater, fan motor if equipped, 0°F is still colder then 14°F so it will call from time to time.
    One day you will slug liquid and say BY BY.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 10,116Member

    I've always wondered about typical consumer refrigeration products and outdoor temps. No crank case heaters, and open condensers. Seems like a recipe for hydra-locking a compressor and/or and oil-less compressor. Neither of which mean survival!

    My 1933 refrigerator has a 12w crank case heater and it still doesn't like ambients below 60 degrees or so. But, it's compressor shell is the high side and the refrigerant really likes to condense and lay under the oil and it doesn't mix with the oil like modern refrigerants. So it ends up making the system behave like it's low on charge more than anything. That and it makes some really odd blooping sounds. But no explosive foamy issues.

    I've seen many modern units run in chilly conditions. Whether or not it's bad for them I don't know. But they are all capillary tube I think and that barely adjusts to conditions.

    Whether you'd get migration to the compressor I guess depends on just how cold it gets out. The evaporator should be pretty cold except during defrost.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • nibsnibs Posts: 351Member
    So how many here have freezers that live outside?
    A restaurant across the highway from us kept two freezers outside for years ( - 20F not uncommon) biggest problem she had was with bears.
    A family friend kept a freezer outside for the 20 years we knew them. Biggest problem they had was a druggie son who used to raid it.
    Our 60 yr old fridge has lived outside for 10 years now and still chugs along.
    This is a classic example of theory bumping heads with practice.
    SWMBO tells me that our outside fridge stops cycling when it is cold out, and the ambient heat of the food storage warms the freezer and the ice cream softens a little. Fridge has been outside for about 7 years.
    If the Wright Bros had listened to the experts, we would still be ground bound.
  • pecmsgpecmsg Posts: 893Member
    nibs said:

    So how many here have freezers that live outside?
    A restaurant across the highway from us kept two freezers outside for years ( - 20F not uncommon) biggest problem she had was with bears.
    A family friend kept a freezer outside for the 20 years we knew them. Biggest problem they had was a druggie son who used to raid it.
    Our 60 yr old fridge has lived outside for 10 years now and still chugs along.
    This is a classic example of theory bumping heads with practice.
    SWMBO tells me that our outside fridge stops cycling when it is cold out, and the ambient heat of the food storage warms the freezer and the ice cream softens a little. Fridge has been outside for about 7 years.
    If the Wright Bros had listened to the experts, we would still be ground bound.

    A lot of the equipment we work on is outdoors but its designed for it! your little home cheap O freezer is not!
  • Solid_Fuel_ManSolid_Fuel_Man Posts: 1,690Member
    Yes, the thermostat turns off the compressor when set point is met. Freezers most likely are 0 to -10F. As long as the outdoor temp is above that the compressor will run occasionally and should keep alive. If you have a week-long -20 and the compressor is off, then when it warms to a point that the thermostat calls and the compressor starts most likely a sluggish of liquid refrigerant gets sent to the compressor.

    This is the same as when you drive your car full throttle into a lake and water gets pulled through tha air filter into the intake. Your engine (compressor) will break a connecting rod or crankshaft.

    This is WELL known and I have replaced many compressors this has happened to.

    In all likelihood cheap consumers grade stuff has so little refrigerant in it it may survive.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC, and Controls
  • nibsnibs Posts: 351Member
    Guess we will take granny's ole freezer and knit it a sweater.
    My suggestion to the OP is to buy el cheapo... scratch & dent freezer, and try it.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 10,116Member
    edited June 13

    Yes, the thermostat turns off the compressor when set point is met. Freezers most likely are 0 to -10F. As long as the outdoor temp is above that the compressor will run occasionally and should keep alive. If you have a week-long -20 and the compressor is off, then when it warms to a point that the thermostat calls and the compressor starts most likely a sluggish of liquid refrigerant gets sent to the compressor.



    This is the same as when you drive your car full throttle into a lake and water gets pulled through tha air filter into the intake. Your engine (compressor) will break a connecting rod or crankshaft.



    This is WELL known and I have replaced many compressors this has happened to.



    In all likelihood cheap consumers grade stuff has so little refrigerant in it it may survive.

    For most refrigerators, that slug would end up in the crankcase as the shell is the low side.

    However, that's also why migration is so deadly to such compressors. Refrigerant ends up laying with the oil and when the compressor fires up the refrigerant vaporizes and foams the oil. I believe, the compressor also tends to suck up a bunch of oil and possibly liquid refrigerant under such conditions.

    @nibs as has been said, that long off cycle is exactly what will kill it, if anything. Low ambients with a cap tube will likely make it behave like it's undercharged, but that shouldn't harm anything especially since it freezes anyway. But extended long off periods with the compressor being below the temperature of the evaporator would be BAD.

    That said, I tend to agree. Buy one and see what happens. We're not talking about something that costs a fortune or that is irreplaceable.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • FredFred Posts: 8,043Member
    If you goggle Outdoor freezers, you get some hits but I don't know that any of them are really "outdoor" by design. In any case, I would think you would want one that isn't self defrosting as that by itself may lead to water freezing and bursting any drain tubing and/or the drain pan.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 10,116Member
    Imo "frost free" freezers suck in general.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • pecmsgpecmsg Posts: 893Member
    Fred said:

    If you goggle Outdoor freezers, you get some hits but I don't know that any of them are really "outdoor" by design. In any case, I would think you would want one that isn't self defrosting as that by itself may lead to water freezing and bursting any drain tubing and/or the drain pan.

    that's all figured in the design.
  • FredFred Posts: 8,043Member
    edited June 14
    pecmsg said:

    Fred said:

    If you goggle Outdoor freezers, you get some hits but I don't know that any of them are really "outdoor" by design. In any case, I would think you would want one that isn't self defrosting as that by itself may lead to water freezing and bursting any drain tubing and/or the drain pan.

    that's all figured in the design.
    Every site I googled for Outdoor chest Freezers came back with regular indoor chest freezers, much like anyone who just moves their freezer to a carport or deck. I don't think it's figured into the design simply because I can't seem to find a design for a true outdoor freezer.
  • pecmsgpecmsg Posts: 893Member
    Fred said:

    pecmsg said:

    Fred said:

    If you goggle Outdoor freezers, you get some hits but I don't know that any of them are really "outdoor" by design. In any case, I would think you would want one that isn't self defrosting as that by itself may lead to water freezing and bursting any drain tubing and/or the drain pan.

    that's all figured in the design.
    Every site I googled for Outdoor chest Freezers came back with regular indoor chest freezers, much like anyone who just moves their freezer to a carport or deck. I don't think it's figured into the design simply because I can't seem to find a design for a true outdoor freezer.
    https://stainlesssupplycabinets.com/product/24-outdoor-freezer-drawers/

    I said it wasn't cheap!
  • jacobsondjacobsond Posts: 39Member
    Other than cold temps may hard on the compressor low ambulant temps may cause an unwanted temp swing. With temps below freezing the heat loss in the box will be less causing temp inside the box to get higher than normal. Mind you it might be a temp swing of 10-15 degrees instead of 5-10. No real big issue if its below freezing. It depends on the thermostat in the freezer and what kind of anticipator it may have. Now if it gets 100+ degrees outside in the summer you may have more problems with high ambulant than with low.
    coming to you from warm and sunny ND
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 10,116Member
    jacobsond said:

    Other than cold temps may hard on the compressor low ambulant temps may cause an unwanted temp swing. With temps below freezing the heat loss in the box will be less causing temp inside the box to get higher than normal. Mind you it might be a temp swing of 10-15 degrees instead of 5-10. No real big issue if its below freezing. It depends on the thermostat in the freezer and what kind of anticipator it may have. Now if it gets 100+ degrees outside in the summer you may have more problems with high ambulant than with low.

    Food must be kept below 0 degrees F for long term storage,not 32.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • pecmsgpecmsg Posts: 893Member
    ChrisJ said:

    jacobsond said:

    Other than cold temps may hard on the compressor low ambulant temps may cause an unwanted temp swing. With temps below freezing the heat loss in the box will be less causing temp inside the box to get higher than normal. Mind you it might be a temp swing of 10-15 degrees instead of 5-10. No real big issue if its below freezing. It depends on the thermostat in the freezer and what kind of anticipator it may have. Now if it gets 100+ degrees outside in the summer you may have more problems with high ambulant than with low.

    Food must be kept below 0 degrees F for long term storage,not 32.
    Actually 0°F is short term 30-45 days...………....-15°F is long term 90 Days
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 10,116Member
    > @pecmsg said:
    > Other than cold temps may hard on the compressor low ambulant temps may cause an unwanted temp swing. With temps below freezing the heat loss in the box will be less causing temp inside the box to get higher than normal. Mind you it might be a temp swing of 10-15 degrees instead of 5-10. No real big issue if its below freezing. It depends on the thermostat in the freezer and what kind of anticipator it may have. Now if it gets 100+ degrees outside in the summer you may have more problems with high ambulant than with low.
    >
    > Food must be kept below 0 degrees F for long term storage,not 32.
    >
    > Actually 0°F is short term 30-45 days...………....-15°F is long term 90 Days

    Can you share where this information comes from? Is -15 a commercial requiment? I've only seen 0f documented.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • pecmsgpecmsg Posts: 893Member
    I'll find it but yes commercial standards. Type of product also comes into play.

    Do you want to eat fish 3-months old?
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 10,116Member
    edited June 14
    pecmsg said:

    I'll find it but yes commercial standards. Type of product also comes into play.

    Do you want to eat fish 3-months old?

    I don't want to eat fish that's an hour old... ;)
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • FredFred Posts: 8,043Member
    pecmsg said:

    Fred said:

    pecmsg said:

    Fred said:

    If you goggle Outdoor freezers, you get some hits but I don't know that any of them are really "outdoor" by design. In any case, I would think you would want one that isn't self defrosting as that by itself may lead to water freezing and bursting any drain tubing and/or the drain pan.

    that's all figured in the design.
    Every site I googled for Outdoor chest Freezers came back with regular indoor chest freezers, much like anyone who just moves their freezer to a carport or deck. I don't think it's figured into the design simply because I can't seem to find a design for a true outdoor freezer.
    https://stainlesssupplycabinets.com/product/24-outdoor-freezer-drawers/

    I said it wasn't cheap!
    I did see that one but didn't consider it a Chest type freezer.
  • FredFred Posts: 8,043Member
    ChrisJ said:

    pecmsg said:

    I'll find it but yes commercial standards. Type of product also comes into play.

    Do you want to eat fish 3-months old?

    I don't want to eat fish that's an hour old... ;)
    Me Either!!!
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