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Another Gravity Conversion

Ironman
Ironman Member Posts: 6,330
We're in the process of marrying another set of UFT's to an old gravity system.

Here's a few pics. More to come later.

Breaking down the old American Standard boiler.




We moved the new boilers around to the right side and re-piped them so there would be no head-knockers getting to the boilers.






Trying to find the right spot for the expansion tank. Might hang this one with threaded rod.






Bob Boan
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
HenrySTEVEusaPAkcoppErin Holohan HaskellSteve MinnichSuperTechDan FoleySolid_Fuel_Man
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Comments

  • bob eck
    bob eck Member Posts: 922
    What is the heat load on this house?
    What model HTP?
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,330
    edited March 2019
    bob eck said:

    What is the heat load on this house?
    What model HTP?

    185k btu's.

    UFT.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 4,828
    Looking great, as always!
    steve
    Ironman
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 8,564
    That old tee in the middle of the 6th picture down. I never new what they were made of cast or malleable.

    I just know when I see those ....that's old stuff


    Nice job
    Ironman
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,330
    They both are well over 100 years old. The left one is a 300# malleable. I'm not sure about the right one.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 8,564
    @Ironman

    have seen those fittings before but never had to cut one out to see what it was made of. I did cut out a 3" cast iron coupling on an old condensate line a couple of years back. That was a first, I have only seen steel and malleable couplings before.

    When I see those fittings I tiptoe buy
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 8,564
    OUCH!

    Broke my big toe once taking a radiator off the truck. Went straight to the ER I didn't take my shoe off I new it was broken.

    They all laughed at the ER. "A car radiator" they said.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 4,828
    Beautiful, Bob!
    Can’t wait to see the finished radiators.
    steve
    Ironman
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 2,624
    Nice neat work. Is it ok to reduce those flues?
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, Master Plumber
    in New York
    in New Jersey
    for Consulting Work
    or take his class.
    Ironman
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,330
    edited March 2019
    JohnNY said:

    Nice neat work. Is it ok to reduce those flues?

    Yes, the manual allows 2" on all sizes up to 50'. The boilers are 120k, each.

    That corner was the only place we could vent them, and as you can see, there's a lot going on there. There's a bay window that starts right above the right boiler and we still have two more 1" black pipes coming down in the left corner that have to be connected. You can see the holes for them in the upper left corner in this pic. They have to connect back to the large gravity piping to keep everything balanced.




    Keeping it 2" gave us a little more flexibility.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,252
    I see you are using your patented hydraulic separator with the twins.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
    Ironman
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,530
    When you make the iron separator. Do you install any mesh media installed inside?
  • MikeT_Swampeast_MO
    MikeT_Swampeast_MO Member Posts: 27
    TRVs on the radiators?
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,330
    > @Gordy said:
    > When you make the iron separator. Do you install any mesh media installed inside?

    No, I have a different approach.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,330
    > @MikeT_Swampeast_MO said:
    > TRVs on the radiators?


    Some.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,319
    @ironman you gotta let the cat out already. Just tell us what’s in the damn thing!
    SeanBeans
  • SeanBeans
    SeanBeans Member Posts: 483
    Cleaning brushes?
    Ironman
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,530
    Honestly there would not have to be anything.
  • rwhtg
    rwhtg Member Posts: 34
    awesome job where was this project? what was the oil burner on the oil boiler?
    Skilled labor isn’t cheap, cheap labor isn’t skilled.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,330
    rwhtg said:

    awesome job where was this project? what was the oil burner on the oil boiler?

    It's in Staunton, VA. It was natural gas.

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,330

    @ironman you gotta let the cat out already. Just tell us what’s in the damn thing!

    At the moment, there's air in it. :)

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    Canucker
  • Le John
    Le John Member Posts: 196
    @Ironman - That is a very very nice and neat install. Looks fantastic!
    Ironman
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,189
    The bottom of the cross might have "cow magnets" inside.
    You unscrew the bell reducer to remove them for cleaning. ;)

    Great looking job and use of space!
    Ironman
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,330
    SeanBeans said:

    Cleaning brushes?

    That might work.

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 8,564
    "wide place in the road" is all you need
    Ironman
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,552
    Wide pipe, low top to bottom velocity give you the required separation.

    Adding some "edges" inside will greatly enhance micro air and dirt separation.

    A magnet would want to be in a non magnetic well, or else the whole enchilada turns into a mag sep.

    Nice clean piping, and a hidden talent :)
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    JUGHNEIronman
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,199
    Superb, Bob. Thanks so much for sharing it all with us. I need some Bengay after just looking at those radiators.
    Retired and loving it.
    IronmanSolid_Fuel_Man
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,252
    Its crazy how clean that old American Standard boiler is. I'm so used to oil!
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • MikeT_Swampeast_MO
    MikeT_Swampeast_MO Member Posts: 27
    Ironman said:

    > @MikeT_Swampeast_MO said:

    > TRVs on the radiators?





    Some.

    Why not all?
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,199
    @Mike T., Swampeast MO welcome back, old friend.
    Retired and loving it.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,330

    Ironman said:

    > @MikeT_Swampeast_MO said:

    > TRVs on the radiators?





    Some.

    Why not all?
    $$

    A well balanced gravity system shouldn't need them on all, but that would be ideal.

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • boilermate
    boilermate Member Posts: 4
    You seem to be enthusiastic about HTP boilers, but I have read some pretty nasty comments about them on "the web." So, what's your take on that?
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,426
    Remember that a bad installer can make a good boiler underperform, and die an early death. Naturally the installer blames the boiler, like the “Bad Workman” blaming his tools!
    Very few people will post a good review, so that leaves only those who have had a bad experience to post the bad review.—NBC
    IronmanCanuckerSTEVEusaPA
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,330
    ^^ ^^
    This.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • bob eck
    bob eck Member Posts: 922
    Like what NBC said
    High efficiency condensing boiler and combi boiler need the following.
    Sized correctly. If over sized the boiler can short cycle causing many ignitions causing parts to fail prematurely.
    Not piping the high efficiency boiler in correctly.
    Micro zoning without a buffer tank causing short cycling on and off of the boiler to many times.
    Not proper venting. Bringing in exhaust gas instead of 100% fresh air for combustion. This will kill a high efficiency boiler in few year.
    Not addressing water quality. Not installing a magnetic separation unit.
    Contractors that install the high efficiency condensing boiler and combi boiler and they do not put testing equipment on the boiler to set it up properly.


    Still the contractor can do everything correctly and if the home owner does not have yearly maintenance done on their boiler and they neglect the boiler this can cause problems down the road.
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,426
    I would like to see some of the bad reviews, and read between the lines to understand what problems the homeowner had with a particular make of boiler.
    Bob’s list of potential installation shortcomings is all together more frequent than we might think, based on postings here from perplexed homeowners seeking a solution to their problems. This is especially true, when the owner buys a mis-sized high efficiency boiler online, and expects the local craigslist trunk-slammer to read the instructions, and install it properly.—NBC
    Ironman
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,552
    No doubt the early entries, like HTP took some arrows in the back pioneering mod cons in the US. Not every product developed in Europe transitions to the US way of doing hydronics. A boiler is merely a boxful various manufacturers components, the name on the front assumes responsibility for those parts quality and compatibility.

    With so many choices now, over 65, there seems to be a competition to build them at lower and lower price points. I think it is wise that manufacturers offer at least a good and best option.

    Eliminating control features is one cost cutting step, but also not not all fire tube heat exchangers are equal. Taking size and material out if the usual path to a pricepoint product offering.

    I feel that a 15 year life expectancy is the norm. Most manufacturers start out a product line with a "sunset" date in mind. Evolution continues, I hear rumors of Viessmann 19:1 turndown options?

    I suspect after 15 years parts will be hard to come by as models phase out.

    Product support on a boiler is also a big concern. A rep and dealer that takes the time to learn the product, stay updated on training, and learn the common installer mistakes and help them avoid them.

    DIYers and Box Store sales is a whole 'nother chapter.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,199
    I also give a lot of credit to the manufacturers who appear here and offer help. That really goes a long way.
    Retired and loving it.
    Solid_Fuel_ManIronmanErin Holohan Haskell
  • Smitdy
    Smitdy Member Posts: 15
    I've beeninstalling HTP products for a number of years. I've been using the EFT models and have had 0 callbacks/issues, I tried the uft (installed 2) & had a number of issues so I went back to the EFT and now unfortunately HTP is doing away with the EFT. So it looks like I'm going to Triangle Tube after my the current install I'm on finishes up...nice install on those UFT's, I like the seperator.
    Le JohnIronman
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