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Question about adding a fresh air pipe to boiler room

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Comments

  • stefn
    stefn Member Posts: 25
    No contractors have tested the combustion exhaust gases for CO to my knowledge.
  • stefn
    stefn Member Posts: 25
    edited December 2018
    I called. It is not one of the recalled units. So...I am having the liner checked, and asking about a fan in can rather than hole in wall? Is the fan in can reliable and can someone explain in terms I can understand how it can help my situation. Thank you
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
    This is the govt site for the recall, not sure if yours is in it, trying to figure out the s#.


    https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2002/CPSC-ECR-International-Announce-Recall-to-Repair-of-Gas-Boilers
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
    You said your boiler was installed 16 years ago, that would be 2001 - 2002 and it looks like the S# falls in the range.

    They state: Independent heating contractors sold and installed these boilers nationwide from August 2001 through March 2002 for between $1,200 and $3,000.

    Consumers should contact ECR International immediately to arrange for a free repair. Consumers can call ECR International at (800) 241- 5501 between 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. ET Monday through Friday.
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
    This could be part of your problem unfortunately, it didn't dawn on me till I looked at the picture of the label, some of these units were putting extremely high amounts of CO in the exhaust, if they tested the combustion gas it should have showed, you need to get a hold of the best contractor in your area, you need to ask them if they have a electronic combustion analyzer that will test CO as well and ask them if they are familiar with the ECR, Dunkirk boiler recall for high CO @ 2002.

    Let us know how this works out, hopefully I'm wrong. Could be the boiler was repaired under the recall way back, but it's a base that needs to be covered. You still need combustion air even if you change the unit out and these are the kits.

    https://www.fieldcontrols.com/cas-3-oil-and-cas-4-gas?page_id=94
  • stefn
    stefn Member Posts: 25
    I called ECR. Gave them model and serial number. Mine was not one of the recalled units
    GBart
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
    edited December 2018
    One down, you still need to find the best contractor in your area, you need to ask them if they have a electronic combustion analyzer that will test CO as well and ask them if they are familiar with providing combustion with the Fan in a Can or other kits and if they will provide you with a COppm in the exhaust, if you had alarms go off that should have been done, gas units should be below 100ppm in the exhaust, the average is 10-20ppm, at 400ppm the unit has to be shut down and repaired, but any competent technician is going to have concerns about any unit that is around or above 100ppm because that isn't normal.

    Even though ECR says it isn't in the recall I really don't like those boilers or their design, it's very open and any issues with draft and the exhaust backs right out, those units are 1950's technology, a high efficiency sealed combustion boiler is a much better way to go and about 50% more efficient.

    Maybe if you post your area someone here can step up or provide a reference, it's very sad that our field does not have better technicians overall, real pro's are very hard to find, this is sometimes linked to a lack of strict licensing and training regulations, I worked for Carrier in tech support and I covered the northeast, any state that had lax licensing had the worst tech's with the dumbest questions, the toughest, Ct, Mass and RI usually had tech's calling in that had tried a lot of things logically and were truly stumped.
  • stefn
    stefn Member Posts: 25
    Thank you. I live in Suffolk county on Long Island in New York. Maybe someone on here is close to me? Thanks
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
    edited December 2018
    At the top of this screen is a box for find a contractor in your area, good luck and you can show them the thread so they save time.

    it's here : https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
    Does anyone here have any experience or knowledge of NH Ross co in LI ?
  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
    ^ I know Mr Ross, I did some computer IT work for him.
    Good man, he and his wife run the company. They run a tight ship.

    I would have no problem recommending them- quality company that does good work.

  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
    Soundview Heating & Air Conditioning in Middle Island is also very good. They did some really excellent work at our local Fire Dep. Headquarters. Neat and clean, quality workmanship.
    GBart
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
    edited December 2018
    Yeah I just kind of researched them too and seem to be on the up & up.

    Please let us know how this turns out.
  • stefn
    stefn Member Posts: 25
    Thank you
    GBart
  • stefn
    stefn Member Posts: 25
    So John Pilger from Chief Chimney was at my home this morning. He did a draft test and said the system has really good draft. He checked the liner and stated that I have a 5.5 smooth wall liner. He took down the rest of the information from the boiler and will input into his system at home to make sure liner is correct size for this boiler.
  • stefn
    stefn Member Posts: 25
    I'd like to ask this question as well...........when its super cold outside and/or we get snow or sleet then the chimney cap (which was changed when new liner was installed) gets quite a bit of ice covering it. It's not completely covered but you can see the ice formation and see chunks fall to the driveway when it melts off. Any relation to this issue I'm having or is this totally separate?
  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
    @stefn

    When you did the "Find a Contractor" thing.... didn't Robert's company come up?

    Technical Heating
    631-473-1597
    78 CHESTNUT ST, MOUNT SINAI, NY 11766

    He's in mid Suffolk and is certainly well qualified and trustworthy..
  • stefn
    stefn Member Posts: 25
    It didn’t. Thank you
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
    still no test for CO ppm in the exhaust??? this is a must
  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,276
    edited December 2018
    NY_Rob said:

    @stefn

    When you did the "Find a Contractor" thing.... didn't Robert's company come up?

    Technical Heating
    631-473-1597
    78 CHESTNUT ST, MOUNT SINAI, NY 11766

    He's in mid Suffolk and is certainly well qualified and trustworthy..

    Here you go: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/technical-heating
    President
    HeatingHelp.com
    NY_Rob
  • captainco
    captainco Member Posts: 792
    Not sure what you mean by pretty good draft. But if the draft is over -.02" you have plenty of combustion air. Combustion numbers are critical to determining the problem. This includes multiple readings over 5 minutes - O2 and CO readings.
  • stefn
    stefn Member Posts: 25
    Multiple draft readings over five minutes. Readings were 7
  • Nysteamer
    Nysteamer Member Posts: 22
    Hello all, this conversation is going in many different directions, but I wanted to ask everyone their thoughts on this device. I installed one of these in my boiler room. I don't know the combustion air requirements of the devices but I figured any air exchange was better than none considering it is enclosed from the rest of the basement.

  • stefn
    stefn Member Posts: 25
    I’d love to know what it is and what it does. Can you explain?
  • Nysteamer
    Nysteamer Member Posts: 22
    Haha sorry guys, this is an air ex-changer. It gets ducted to the outside to pull air in and out. @ 180 cfm with both fans running.
  • captainco
    captainco Member Posts: 792
    What is 7? Inches or Pascals? Draft is usually .02"w.c. or higher.
  • stefn
    stefn Member Posts: 25
    Not sure. He drilled a hole into pipe coming out boiler. He had a hand held device with a probe. Stuck the probe into the hole he drilled multiple times. With louvered door open. With it closed. The number showed 7. He said it was a very good draft. Boiler was running. Was completely NOT what other guy did the other day. Called last night. Said I have right size liner for my boiler and chimney. He said we should add insulation around it and change chimney cap. Thoughts? This is John Pilger who came. I trust him.
  • DZoro
    DZoro Member Posts: 1,048
    Your issue could also be a "right situation" problem. The right wind, direction, pressures, air. Most of the time you may have perfect draft, but..... in the right situation you can be in trouble with the draft. IMO the only way to solve is mechanically. Does Dunkirk offer a power exhaust for that boiler? This along with a fan intake, to me is still your best and safest option.
  • Bob Harper
    Bob Harper Member Posts: 1,034
    Power venter at boiler putting vent under positive pressure illegal unless you replace entire vent with one listed to UL 1738 but that assumes your boiler's stack temp. is low enough for that venting and approved for it. The only way to power vent with unlisted connector pipe and std. chimney liner is with a terminal power vent that puts the entire vent under negative pressure.
    Ping John for clarification on that number. As Jim said, its usually one or the other unit of measure. 7 Pascals = 0.028 wci, which is just enough draft. Hopefully, he took pics of the meter as it read or, if it was a combustion analyzer he should have been able to print out all the numbers including stack temp, O2, CO.
    captaincoknotgrumpy
  • debdeb
    debdeb Member Posts: 1
    Stefn, what did you end up doing? Were you able to find combustion analyst with his draft gauge and analyzer?

    I’m having a similar problem. Technician recommended a fan in a can.
  • Homeownertoo
    Homeownertoo Member Posts: 1
    Problem is the hot water heater that previously shared the boiler chimney, kept the chimney warm all year. Because the Rennai doesn't use the chimney to vent, when the boiler kicks on to provide heat in the cold months, the chimney is cold and the gas fumes don't exhaust immediately. Putting in a fresh air duct wont solve the problem. It will only provide more fresh air to displace the smell of the un-exhausting CO. Either put in a combustion boiler and vent directly outside. Close old chimney and achieve 94% efficiency OR keep the window open to disburse the odor till the winter is over!