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ANSI flanges

Tom_133
Tom_133 Member Posts: 884
in THE MAIN WALL
Hey all,

So I’m currenty on an engineered job. It’s spec’ing out Taco VR15 pumps, these pumps come through with 1 1/2” ansi flanges. The engineer has 3” copper going to the pumps and doesn’t want me to bottle neck it too much. Any suggestions on fittings to go from ansi class 150 11/2” to 3” copper?

Thanks Tom

Tom
Montpelier Vt

Comments

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,120
    copper sweat? or press or groove? I think you can buy copper flange kits in sweat and press, just get a set of 3" flanges.


    Possibly the hole in both ends of the pump volute is only 1-1/2" so a 3" flange would just have a lip around the inside.

    I like to use swage nipples to make a step that large, very friendly to flow.
    .
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 884
    Copper sweat, sorry for forgetting that.

    Yeah, the issue is the ansi 1 1/2" flange, I cant find a 5" diameter companion flange that will fit that pump with anything bigger than an 1 1/2" pipe thread or sweat coming off it. I would love to find a 1 1/2" flange with a 2 or 3" center. Better yet a Webstone isolation flange that fits with a 2 or 3" outlet on it.

    like this https://www.supplyhouse.com/Webstone-51406HV-RF375-1-1-2-Sweat-Round-Isolator-w-Detachable-Rotating-Flange with a 2 or 3" valve on a 1 1/2" flange.
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,120
    If the 1-1/2 Webstone fits, maybe use a copper bell reducer to get to 3"
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,907
    The effect of that bottleneck is nearly unnoticeable in the grand scheme of things. If the pump is made to move X amount of water and then comes off the line with 1-1/2" flanges, it'll move the water you need it to move in the 3" lines assuming someone did their homework and sized the pump properly. 3" mains means low(er) head, and that pump will move 124 GPM at zero head. In these applications I will typically bolt on a Webstone 1-1/2" sweat isolator flange and burn a bell reducer on right out of the flange on both sides. I'm not very familiar with the VR as we typically run B&G pumps, but I don't think it'll accept anything larger than a 1-1/2" flange anyway will it?
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,517
    your stuck with 1 1/2". This is normal. 1 1/2" copper sweat flange with a 3 x 1 1/2 reducer. If the pipe and pump are horizontal you should use eccentrics with the flat on top but I don't think they are made except in 125# cast iron
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,120
    Swage nipples are available as eccentric also :)
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 884
    thanks guys, I get the reducer, I just dont think the engineer will like the look of the bottle neck.

    Gonna go with this http://www.smithcooper.com/catalogue/product/56609
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,120
    That looks like a good option.

    I'm surprised an engineer would not know this is a common method for installing circulator pumps? It's not often that they are offered in the various pipe sized, and typically an increaser fitting is used.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Canucker
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,624
    If I was catching crap for something like that, I might ask the engineer if was the pump or the pipe size that was specced wrong; after that you do what you have to to fit them together.
    Canucker
  • Dave_132
    Dave_132 Member Posts: 64
    It would seem that our Engineer friend needs to take a few more classes regarding pumps and piping. I wonder if he insists on the same bore size modulating 3way mixing valves ? I hope not.
    In a world of compromise , some men don't !
    Canucker
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,517
    @Tom ,

    I see no difference between the CI flanged reducer and a 3 x 1 1/2 copper reducer. Longer taper.

    This is a completely normal situation on commercial jobs. I think your overthinking it. Did the engineer spec a suction diffuser and a triple duty valve on the discharge? That is what is usually done. Reducing suction diffusers are available. Maybe not 3 x 1 1/2 though

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