ANSI flanges

Tom_133

Hey all,

So I’m currenty on an engineered job. It’s spec’ing out Taco VR15 pumps, these pumps come through with 1 1/2” ansi flanges. The engineer has 3” copper going to the pumps and doesn’t want me to bottle neck it too much. Any suggestions on fittings to go from ansi class 150 11/2” to 3” copper?

Thanks Tom

hot_rod

copper sweat? or press or groove? I think you can buy copper flange kits in sweat and press, just get a set of 3" flanges.


Possibly the hole in both ends of the pump volute is only 1-1/2" so a 3" flange would just have a lip around the inside.

I like to use swage nipples to make a step that large, very friendly to flow.
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Tom_133

Copper sweat, sorry for forgetting that.

Yeah, the issue is the ansi 1 1/2" flange, I cant find a 5" diameter companion flange that will fit that pump with anything bigger than an 1 1/2" pipe thread or sweat coming off it. I would love to find a 1 1/2" flange with a 2 or 3" center. Better yet a Webstone isolation flange that fits with a 2 or 3" outlet on it.

like this https://www.supplyhouse.com/Webstone-51406HV-RF375-1-1-2-Sweat-Round-Isolator-w-Detachable-Rotating-Flange with a 2 or 3" valve on a 1 1/2" flange.

hot_rod

If the 1-1/2 Webstone fits, maybe use a copper bell reducer to get to 3"

GroundUp

The effect of that bottleneck is nearly unnoticeable in the grand scheme of things. If the pump is made to move X amount of water and then comes off the line with 1-1/2" flanges, it'll move the water you need it to move in the 3" lines assuming someone did their homework and sized the pump properly. 3" mains means low(er) head, and that pump will move 124 GPM at zero head. In these applications I will typically bolt on a Webstone 1-1/2" sweat isolator flange and burn a bell reducer on right out of the flange on both sides. I'm not very familiar with the VR as we typically run B&G pumps, but I don't think it'll accept anything larger than a 1-1/2" flange anyway will it?

EBEBRATT-Ed

your stuck with 1 1/2". This is normal. 1 1/2" copper sweat flange with a 3 x 1 1/2 reducer. If the pipe and pump are horizontal you should use eccentrics with the flat on top but I don't think they are made except in 125# cast iron

hot_rod

Swage nipples are available as eccentric also

Tom_133

thanks guys, I get the reducer, I just dont think the engineer will like the look of the bottle neck.

Gonna go with this http://www.smithcooper.com/catalogue/product/56609

hot_rod

That looks like a good option.

I'm surprised an engineer would not know this is a common method for installing circulator pumps? It's not often that they are offered in the various pipe sized, and typically an increaser fitting is used.

ratio

If I was catching crap for something like that, I might ask the engineer if was the pump or the pipe size that was specced wrong; after that you do what you have to to fit them together.

Dave_132

It would seem that our Engineer friend needs to take a few more classes regarding pumps and piping. I wonder if he insists on the same bore size modulating 3way mixing valves ? I hope not.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Tom ,

I see no difference between the CI flanged reducer and a 3 x 1 1/2 copper reducer. Longer taper.

This is a completely normal situation on commercial jobs. I think your overthinking it. Did the engineer spec a suction diffuser and a triple duty valve on the discharge? That is what is usually done. Reducing suction diffusers are available. Maybe not 3 x 1 1/2 though