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Are copper press fittings safe for Steam header?

bruce_21
bruce_21 Member Posts: 241
in Strictly Steam
I visited my daughter-in-law's parents house over the holidays and they showed me the relatively new steam boiler in their basement. I was surprised to see a copper header made with press fittings. Will this work? I didn't say anything because I don't know if this works and didn't want to worry them

Comments

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,226
    edited January 2018
    Propress fittings are rated for low pressure steam. I guess if you ask 10 people you will get 10 different answers.

    Most on this forum (including me) probably don't think much of using them on a steam header but I don't want to speak for others they will chime in I am sure. If it was me it would be black pipe.

    Time will tell how well it will hold up. Also, just noticed that the equalizer is taken off the header before the system take off which is incorrect. After both risers from the boiler hit the header the system steam supply is next followed by the equalizer.

    Like many jobs we see that are not textbook it is possible it may work ok
    Jackmartin
  • Gilmorrie
    Gilmorrie Member Posts: 186
    Copper is OK for hot-water heat, but is seldom recommended for steam.
    Jackmartin
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    No skim port either and I see the Pressuretrol is piped off of the top of that McDonnell Miller #67 Low water cut off. A recipe for a clogged pigtail once or twice a season and a Pressuretrol that can't see the actual system pressure.
    Jackmartin
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,804
    I dig the puny main vent
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    Jackmartin
  • bruce_21
    bruce_21 Member Posts: 241
    They live in a small town near Ithaca and said the R.E. agent that sold them the house told them there were only 2 or 3 steam systems in the town. This replacement job was likely done by the seller trying to save a few bucks when prepping the house. The puny many vents were probably there from before this boiler. I;m not sure where the pressuretrol could be piped on this boiler, maybe there are tappings behind the jacket that can't be seen in the picture.
  • Jackmartin
    Jackmartin Member Posts: 197
    Cleaver Brooks brought out a cast iron sectional that did not allow for all the low water cutoffs required for a system on guarded status. We had to get inventive with the trappings on the boiler to accommodate everything ,but we finally satisfied the Office of Mechanical Engineering. If you really look at the job and sit down with a pencil and paper you can satisfy the very nessicary safety requirements. In Manitoba ,any boiler in a public place ,has to be on guarded status if it is over fifty boiler horsepower. As for the vent, I stuck my head in a pipe chase on a main riser ,and that vent looks all to familiar to the one that was trying to be a main vent. I am also surprised at the connections for the pressuretrol, we have to pipe it on a manifold that is at least 3/4 inch and has crosses so all parts of the piping are open to inspection? I would also suggest that by the layer of concretions on the vent body it was ruined by water hammer the first or second cycle. I suppose ,at the risk of being a heating nerd ,why do we to attend trade school ,pass our government exams, and read constantly when this kind of work is allowed to exist? I am sad ,someone is going to be stuck with this kind of garbage. All the best Jack


  • Jackmartin
    Jackmartin Member Posts: 197
    edited January 2018
    Oh I just looked at the really nice professional way the suicide connector for the hot water tank is piped ,workmanship at it,s best? Tell your kids to hire a good tradesmen and get that mess repiped before someone gets hurt, good Lord!
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    I just noticed the pigtail under the Pressuretrol is upside down also. It can't hold water and protect the Pressuretrol from steam that way.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,244
    What is that piping material for the pressure relief valve, the drop to the floor?? plastic of some sort?
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    @JUGHNE It is PVC. They sell it at HD for the relief valve on water heaters but I doubt that it is rated for steam.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,244
    That is what I thought, I have used them.
    DHW T&P open at, IIRC 210F, but they are passing water under a good amount of pressure.
    Steam could be well above 212 at 15PSI and have no water passing for "cooling" effect.
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,578
    Many things are wrong with that installation, but do you want to be the bearer of bad news? If you want to say anything, then start by saying the PRV should have a copper down tube on it, for safety.
    Has it been working properly?—NBC
  • newagedawn
    newagedawn Member Posts: 586
    i like how the header elbow reduces,thats a good restriction
    "The bitter taste of a poor install lasts far longer than the JOY of the lowest price"
  • bruce_21
    bruce_21 Member Posts: 241
    Thanks for all your help! Pointed out a lot of things I hadn't noticed in the few minutes I spent in the basement. Extra eyes are very helpful!
    They have been there a two or three years now and never complained about any problems so I guess it is functioning for the moment. I'll be visiting again this summer and start fixing the easy stuff that doesn't require a day and a half or embarrass the daughter-in-law's parents too much.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,226
    At least it has 2 LWCOs. The pigtail will still collect water but I prefer them mounted in the steam space.

    1 pressure control on 1/4" fittings is ok. Multiple controls should be on a 3/4 header if connected on the same tapping

    @Jackmartin , what is guarded status?? Here in Massachusetts a manual reset LWCO and manual reset pressure control (for steam) or aquastat (for hot water) is required on anything larger than 200,000btu/hr.

    I am assuming this is something similar
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
    well, here would be the best answer i can give to you...
    ''It will work for awhile''
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

    Ironman

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