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Honeywell redlink controls with radiant heat

I am building a four floor 5000 sf four manifold 16 loop radiant heat system with indirect DHW and eventually installing mini split inverter heat pumps and for AC and IAQ. Every room is pretty much on its own loop with baths and halls picked up by the leaders,
I like these Honeywell redlink wireless thermostats and the rest of that system, but I cant find out whether I could use them with manifold actuators which i want to put on each loop with its own thermostat. or for that matter whether theres any reason i cant use them with radiant heat at all.
Im guessing the wireless thermostat interface and actuator wires will meet in their thermostat panel or in some actuator interface module and not be wired directly. but honestly im an amateur at this level of control so before i spend too much time researching and planning anyone got familiarity with Honeywell and radiant?
Theres a few reasons im interested in this system.
They seem to have written the book on controls so i guess they are quite reliable. They seem much more reasonably priced than radiant specific brands yet more robust.Their redlink wireless tech is alleged to be more reliable and stronger than mere wifi going through walls at great distance is claimed. This building has three units so three wifi systems .I like the idea of remote control and monitoring as I will be an absentee landlord some of the time and will have a large three floor owners unit that will be occupied sometimes by just me and sometimes by a dozen.I may have to trouble shoot from across the country since I built the system. I have built closed cell and triple pane etc and want to optimize energy efficiency.I want to control and monitor the rental units not the tenants. And i **** up and did not install thermostat wires up there and its now occupied LOL . but I can still wire easily from manifolds to anywhere else so actuator wires are not a problem as long as they can somehow be interfaced with the redlink thermostat panel some how.
I do want a reliable system so any real world info on redlinks performance is helpful they seem to have a 2.0 now not sure if that was frequency related. Thanks guys

Comments

  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Using something other than WiFi for system communications is a Good Thing IMO. RedLINK is essentially an improved version of the well-architected 900 MHz spread spectrum protocol Honeywell developed for wireless security systems. Save the WiFi for UI access and let the machines communicate on a real network.
    Gordy
  • keyote
    keyote Member Posts: 659
    oh Yes i thought I was clear i think it a more advanced reliable frequency,
    https://prezi.com/oywy_vgv2bxr/redlink/


    Is there any problem using their wireless thermostats and tz panel with actuator manifolds in other words controls are controls they dont have to be calefi to work on radiant systems actuators can be wired in to any type 24v control system ? i should think i could bring the actuator wires into an actuator eim if need be first then to the honeywell tz4 panel that the wireless tstats converse with.
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 2,918
    The TZ4 is obsoleted according to Honeywell. The HZ432 is the current flagship. (Curiously, the TAZ-4 is still used for addn'l zones.)

    HOWEVER, the HZ432 with a wireless adapter will operate only up to four stats--to go past four wireless stats you must use individual EIMs; additionally, the wireless adapter isn't usable at the same time as the TAZ, which means that once you add the fifth zone, you have to go back and add EIMs for the four previous stats. Bleh.

    Somewhere, I've got a pic of 6-8 EIMs all wired into a TrueZONE system. It looks ridiculous, but it worked. They're a little pessimistic about the minimum distance between the EIMs as well, this system operated fine with a lot less than the 2 feet minimum called for in the instructions. Distance to the furthest stat wasn't that far though.

    After that, they provide W1 & W2 for calls to the heat source, configurable for %callers or just pass on the second stage from the stat, and a form C contact for the damper/valve, i.e. power open/power closed. They're not the most configurable system, but they seem to Just Work most of the time. Our guestimator loves to "value" "engineer" VAV & VVT systems to TrueZONE systems, & so far we haven't had total failure. :/

  • keyote
    keyote Member Posts: 659
    LOL value engineering fond memories, thas where you eat a lot of labor making the cost cutting work. Im a tinknocker so i understood vav but only vaguely get the rest. I do huge projects so theres whole crews of control guys for months towards the end most i do is install some duct detectors for them.lets see if i understand.
    i knew the tz is really tz 432 and was actually liking the liking the way you daisy chain because as it happens i have four floor building with four loops each so i only have to buy one set now and add as i work my way down.
    the wireless signal from the first four thermostats no longer works once i add the next module ? thats wack.can i just not add the module instead add another parallel tz 432 and tie them all together in a taco panel or something , i could do with just wireless on that top floor and hard wire the rest if that helped
    .
    My system is a single temp radiant heat and eventually inverter minisplit heat pumps Im mainly liking this because its a reliable wireless and i forgot to pull the thermostat wires and its occupied now. i can pull wires easily in the rest of building though and manifold is not in occupied space. but I also like the redlink internet access control and monitoring
    . it seemed like it solved the wire problem with added advantages and i could scale the cost as i went.
    I thought the problem might be how to integrate the manifold loop actuators but you seem to be saying its worse it simply cant do more than four wireless thermostats
    thanks for commenting it seems you have worked with these
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    If each floor need four zones (roughly) you should be able to combine the R & W terminals from the HZ432's either by paralleling them or feeding to another zone control to fire the boiler. Amazon has three TZ4's listed, BTW.
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 2,918
    The wireless adapter ties in to the same "A, B, C, D" terminals as the TAZ panels. If I had to guess, I'd say that the two accessories speak distinct protocols that couldn't easily coexist on the same data bus. Either that, or a really bad marketing decision.

    You can have a many wireless stats as you need (I'm unaware of any limit to the wireless protocols), just if you need more than four zones you are stuck with Equipment Interface Modules (receivers) for each zone. As I said earlier, it looks stoopid as all get-out, but if they're above the ceiling no one will see them. :wink:

  • keyote
    keyote Member Posts: 659
    Thanks SWEI Im trying to roughly understand whats needed in control and boiler piping before getting really specific because obviously they interact.
    At this point Im imagining my top floor which manifold is in a closet floor accessible from my floor below. My Loopcad design says I can use 124 degree water for all four manifolds. so i dont think there will be mixing valves. except i assume the TT has an internal one for the DHW priority or simply just orders everything closed while it fires hotter for DHW
    I install four redlink thermostats in the four rooms of the two apts and the HZ432 base unit perhaps near the manifold.
    !. the thermostat calls to the HZ base unit for heat.
    2. the base unit tells the actuator to open.
    3. . when 100% open a four wire actuator will be needed to tell the Zone [manifold]valve on that manifolds riser to open.
    4. The zone [manifold] valve will tell the primary pipe ecm pump to start pumping. I suppose this will go through a taco panel or the TT internal panel though.

    but i question
    But what if the zone valve is already open because a different actuator already called for heat, is the signal simply ignored but valve wont close until all actuators on that zone manifold valve cease heat calls?
    I assume the ECM pump will also ignore a redundant call for heat if it is already running for that manifold or any other but it will adjust its speed accordingly, in fact if the zone valve on that manifold were already open it would even be adjusting speed before actuator 4 wire sent 100% open signal. But what if the pump were asleep because that was the first actuator to call for heat does it know to wake up when zone valve tells it to

    Is this zone manifold valve and one primary ECM a better way to go than a primary ECM and secondary ECMs, I would think it saves energy should the zone valves be power open or power close.
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 2,918
    The TrueZONE panel is a changeover forced air panel. Since you're only using heat, we can ignore the changeover part. The sequence is one or more stats call for heat. The panel passes the heat call to the air (water) source, & opens the damper (valve) of the associated zones. Those not calling remain closed. As zones satisfy, their valves close, after the last zone satisfies, the heat call goes away. If we had cooling attached as well, the panel would coordinate the zones and the cooling calls the same way, & manage the changeover.

    Keep in mind that the damper contact is just common/normally open/normally closed, meaning it's meant to drive two position actuators. It must be in one state or the other, there is no neutral position.

  • keyote
    keyote Member Posts: 659
    Thanks Ratio
    I will be adding inverter mini splits heat pumps later and probably IAQ as well. the radiant manifold actuators are open close, they take 2-3 minutes to open and if a four wire at that fully open point will send a signal.They would be normally closed and open with a thermal valve.
    But you say the call goes to the boiler source then to zone [manifold riser] valve not the other way around, what if boilers running already.will boiler still signal that valve to open as well?
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    edited July 2016
    The zone control's R & W terminals normally connect to the boiler TT terminals (CH1 Thermostat in this case) and then the boiler manages the circulator. This allows for post-purge and the software option for constant circulation.

    Note that the TriMax uses 18 VDC on its thermostat terminals (not 24 VAC) so it needs a dry contact closure.

    I'm not quite clear as to whether you have wires to the manifolds or not. If so, you could use the damper outputs to control a floating action zone valve on the manifold.
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 2,918
    The signals will go wherever you send them. If you have end switches in the valves, they should maybe/probably be used to fire the boiler. (I don't know enough about what you're planning or have on hand to hazard an opinion which way is more better.)

    The equipment heat call comes on simultaneously with the first stat heat call, & remains on until the last stat heat call is satisfied. Using that would anticipate the end switches slightly, as the contact closure (R->W) wouldn't have to wait until the heat motor cranks the valve open. That may cause subtle difficulties.

    The equipment output is isolated from the power to the TrueZONE panel, so you should be OK using it for DC controls.